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How heinous does a crime have to warrant the death Penalty? Should we not go to war and kill those who killed, to protect the innocent?
Adolf Hitler? Pol Pot? Jeffry Dahmer?
It's a death sentence... let God judge them.
A death penalty is nothing less than state sponsored murder. A crime cannot be punished with crime.
No we should not go to war to kill, and yes we should defend our country. That includes diplomatic and trade relations with other nations, and a military to keep peace and security.
Yes let God judge those who do violence and She will in her own time.
A death penalty is nothing less than state sponsored murder. A crime cannot be punished with crime.
No we should not go to war to kill, and yes we should defend our country. That includes diplomatic and trade relations with other nations, and a military to keep peace and security.
Yes let God judge those who do violence and She will in her own time.
Lol... this post clears it up for me. We're done. One of us is not a Christian.
I waited to post in this thread until most people had posted their opinions.
I'm seriously disappointed, but not at all surprised, to learn that so many of you that claim to be Christians are in favor of the death penalty. To me, the issue is extremely simple. If you pay any attention at all to the message Jesus taught, you know what Jesus would do, and that absolutely would NOT include approving of the execution of a criminal. Now, we know that some of you aren't really trying to "do what Jesus would do."
The Innocence Project has found about 200 cases (so far) where DNA evidence as proven that a person on death row was not guilty of the crime. Had it not been for the appeals process, they would have been executed. Even one of those is unacceptable.
There have been other cases where people with very low IQs have been executed when there was certainly a reasonable doubt that they could even understand the charges against them.
I have read of cases where exonerating evidence was presented to a judge, and he still refused to order a new trail.
Once the execution has taken place there is no way to reverse the sentence when this evidence is presented.
Yet, several of you are OK will allowing the state to execute these people.
Read this short article about a man who spent 25 years on death row only to be found innocent. If some you had your way, he would be dead now. Would you have any remorse?
BTW, there are literally hundreds of these stories. Many of you seem to OK with having a few innocent people killed, as long as most of those executed are guilty. I'm not OK with taking a chance on killing innocent people. If a person is wrongfully incarcerated, he can at least be set free when his innocence is determined.
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Incidentally, the word "murder" is defined as an illegal killing, done on purpose. Specifics vary from place to place, but a state sponsored execution is not murder. Neither is self defense or killing in done in war. They may be bad and distasteful, but they are not "murder." Neither is accidental killing, such as in a car accident. That kind of death might be called manslaughter or negligent homicide, but it is not "murder."
Sometimes, people use the term "murder" to elicit an emotional response, but that is not the correct usage of the word.
I waited to post in this thread until most people had posted their opinions.
I'm seriously disappointed, but not at all surprised, to learn that so many of you that claim to be Christians are in favor of the death penalty. To me, the issue is extremely simple. If you pay any attention at all to the message Jesus taught, you know what Jesus would do, and that absolutely would NOT include approving of the execution of a criminal. Now, we know that some of you aren't really trying to "do what Jesus would do."
The Innocence Project has found about 200 cases (so far) where DNA evidence as proven that a person on death row was not guilty of the crime. Had it not been for the appeals process, they would have been executed. Even one of those is unacceptable.
There have been other cases where people with very low IQs have been executed when there was certainly a reasonable doubt that they could even understand the charges against them.
I have read of cases where exonerating evidence was presented to a judge, and he still refused to order a new trail.
Once the execution has taken place there is no way to reverse the sentence when this evidence is presented.
Yet, several of you are OK will allowing the state to execute these people.
Read this short article about a man who spent 25 years on death row only to be found innocent. If some you had your way, he would be dead now. Would you have any remorse?
BTW, there are literally hundreds of these stories. Many of you seem to OK with having a few innocent people killed, as long as most of those executed are guilty. I'm not OK with taking a chance on killing innocent people. If a person is wrongfully incarcerated, he can at least be set free when his innocence is determined.
----------
Incidentally, the word "murder" is defined as an illegal killing, done on purpose. Specifics vary from place to place, but a state sponsored execution is not murder. Neither is self defense or killing in done in war. They may be bad and distasteful, but they are not "murder." Neither is accidental killing, such as in a car accident. That kind of death might be called manslaughter or negligent homicide, but it is not "murder."
Sometimes, people use the term "murder" to elicit an emotional response, but that is not the correct usage of the word.
And I wonder if there is a correlation between the bolded and 'how religious' a state is?
The death penalty is a rather secular and generic means of being a last resort / last card to pull out for those who's crimes have reached a certain peak / extent. It isn't for people who have committed petty crimes, or even killed one person. It is for those who have gone way beyond the most common crimes and offenses.
It's also obviously to be a deterrent. Maybe it will be in many cases, but not all. But still is important to have in place, just like tickets / fees for traffic offenses, fines for polluting, etc.
There's no reason to say that God or religion needs or must play a role here. This is a general safety / law / punishment matter that applies to all, regardless of belief. The death penalty never changes due to personal preferences.
I waited to post in this thread until most people had posted their opinions.
I'm seriously disappointed, but not at all surprised, to learn that so many of you that claim to be Christians are in favor of the death penalty. To me, the issue is extremely simple. If you pay any attention at all to the message Jesus taught, you know what Jesus would do, and that absolutely would NOT include approving of the execution of a criminal. Now, we know that some of you aren't really trying to "do what Jesus would do."
The Innocence Project has found about 200 cases (so far) where DNA evidence as proven that a person on death row was not guilty of the crime. Had it not been for the appeals process, they would have been executed. Even one of those is unacceptable.
There have been other cases where people with very low IQs have been executed when there was certainly a reasonable doubt that they could even understand the charges against them.
I have read of cases where exonerating evidence was presented to a judge, and he still refused to order a new trail.
Once the execution has taken place there is no way to reverse the sentence when this evidence is presented.
Yet, several of you are OK will allowing the state to execute these people.
Read this short article about a man who spent 25 years on death row only to be found innocent. If some you had your way, he would be dead now. Would you have any remorse?
BTW, there are literally hundreds of these stories. Many of you seem to OK with having a few innocent people killed, as long as most of those executed are guilty. I'm not OK with taking a chance on killing innocent people. If a person is wrongfully incarcerated, he can at least be set free when his innocence is determined.
----------
Incidentally, the word "murder" is defined as an illegal killing, done on purpose. Specifics vary from place to place, but a state sponsored execution is not murder. Neither is self defense or killing in done in war. They may be bad and distasteful, but they are not "murder." Neither is accidental killing, such as in a car accident. That kind of death might be called manslaughter or negligent homicide, but it is not "murder."
Sometimes, people use the term "murder" to elicit an emotional response, but that is not the correct usage of the word.
"It would be better to have a millstone tied around your neck and thrown into the sea" ... who said that and what does that mean to you?
I waited to post in this thread until most people had posted their opinions.
I'm seriously disappointed, but not at all surprised, to learn that so many of you that claim to be Christians are in favor of the death penalty. To me, the issue is extremely simple. If you pay any attention at all to the message Jesus taught, you know what Jesus would do, and that absolutely would NOT include approving of the execution of a criminal. Now, we know that some of you aren't really trying to "do what Jesus would do."
The Innocence Project has found about 200 cases (so far) where DNA evidence as proven that a person on death row was not guilty of the crime. Had it not been for the appeals process, they would have been executed. Even one of those is unacceptable.
There have been other cases where people with very low IQs have been executed when there was certainly a reasonable doubt that they could even understand the charges against them.
I have read of cases where exonerating evidence was presented to a judge, and he still refused to order a new trail.
Once the execution has taken place there is no way to reverse the sentence when this evidence is presented.
Yet, several of you are OK will allowing the state to execute these people.
Read this short article about a man who spent 25 years on death row only to be found innocent. If some you had your way, he would be dead now. Would you have any remorse?
BTW, there are literally hundreds of these stories. Many of you seem to OK with having a few innocent people killed, as long as most of those executed are guilty. I'm not OK with taking a chance on killing innocent people. If a person is wrongfully incarcerated, he can at least be set free when his innocence is determined.
----------
Incidentally, the word "murder" is defined as an illegal killing, done on purpose. Specifics vary from place to place, but a state sponsored execution is not murder. Neither is self defense or killing in done in war. They may be bad and distasteful, but they are not "murder." Neither is accidental killing, such as in a car accident. That kind of death might be called manslaughter or negligent homicide, but it is not "murder."
Sometimes, people use the term "murder" to elicit an emotional response, but that is not the correct usage of the word.
It's also an odd hill for Christians to want to die on, given that it has been demonstrated not to be a deterrent, is far more expensive for society, all in addition to the systemic problems you cite that tend to disproportionately land minorities and the disadvantaged on Death Row with the high probability that many, maybe even most, of those convictions could be overturned due to a combination of DNA coming into play since the offense, and better standards of evidence and jurisprudence slowly gaining traction. Some of those convictions can be overturned just based on lack of evidence; people have been sentenced to death on purely circumstantial evidence at times.
So it's unambiguous that the death penalty is a bad idea, badly implemented, and since the 2,331 Americans currently on Death Row represent about 0.00067% of the population, and the "ask" is not to put them all on the streets, only to not kill them ... it hardly seems like it should even matter in any sane practical sense.
Therefore one must ask: WHY does it matter? It can't be a concern that serial killers will suddenly terrorize America, there aren't enough of them. It can't be a concern for justice because that's demonstrated by experience to be completely Unjust. It can't be a concern for upholding the law or for swift justice, because it takes IIRC an average of 20 years to convict and execute a person accused of first degree murder. It can't be a concern for deterrence because that's been shown not to be a deterrent.
So what is it then? My answer is, it's all about control. The fiction of authoritarian Christianity is that it can (or should) control society and human behavior outside its own in-group. And that control is often iron-fisted and hateful, channeling the wrath of god upon the wicked. It is like a human manifestation of their simplistic black and white belief that a small carrot and a big stick is actually effective in motivating people to be their best selves. It feels good to them. It feels like vindication or something.
The death penalty is a rather secular and generic means of being a last resort / last card to pull out for those who's crimes have reached a certain peak / extent. It isn't for people who have committed petty crimes, or even killed one person. It is for those who have gone way beyond the most common crimes and offenses.
It's also obviously to be a deterrent. Maybe it will be in many cases, but not all. But still is important to have in place, just like tickets / fees for traffic offenses, fines for polluting, etc.
There's no reason to say that God or religion needs or must play a role here. This is a general safety / law / punishment matter that applies to all, regardless of belief. The death penalty never changes due to personal preferences.
The death penalty IS a last resort SECULAR response to societal concerns about safety, law, punishment, and deterrence. It applies to all and has nothing to do with religion. Since it is judged and applied by humans it is unavoidably flawed and fallible. I agree it SHOULD be restricted to those who have gone way beyond the most common crimes and offenses and who pose a "continuing threat" to society. Sadly, it isn't.
I waited to post in this thread until most people had posted their opinions.
I'm seriously disappointed, but not at all surprised, to learn that so many of you that claim to be Christians are in favor of the death penalty. To me, the issue is extremely simple. If you pay any attention at all to the message Jesus taught, you know what Jesus would do, and that absolutely would NOT include approving of the execution of a criminal. Now, we know that some of you aren't really trying to "do what Jesus would do."
The Innocence Project has found about 200 cases (so far) where DNA evidence as proven that a person on death row was not guilty of the crime. Had it not been for the appeals process, they would have been executed. Even one of those is unacceptable.
There have been other cases where people with very low IQs have been executed when there was certainly a reasonable doubt that they could even understand the charges against them.
I have read of cases where exonerating evidence was presented to a judge, and he still refused to order a new trail.
Once the execution has taken place there is no way to reverse the sentence when this evidence is presented.
Yet, several of you are OK will allowing the state to execute these people.
Read this short article about a man who spent 25 years on death row only to be found innocent. If some you had your way, he would be dead now. Would you have any remorse?
BTW, there are literally hundreds of these stories. Many of you seem to OK with having a few innocent people killed, as long as most of those executed are guilty. I'm not OK with taking a chance on killing innocent people. If a person is wrongfully incarcerated, he can at least be set free when his innocence is determined.
----------
Incidentally, the word "murder" is defined as an illegal killing, done on purpose. Specifics vary from place to place, but a state sponsored execution is not murder. Neither is self defense or killing in done in war. They may be bad and distasteful, but they are not "murder." Neither is accidental killing, such as in a car accident. That kind of death might be called manslaughter or negligent homicide, but it is not "murder."
Sometimes, people use the term "murder" to elicit an emotional response, but that is not the correct usage of the word.
55% of religiously unaffiliated still support the death penalty. 60% of US adults favor it. Why whould Christians lag behind? https://www.pewresearch.org/short-re...death-penalty/
If it is found that the executed person was wrongfully prosecuted, sentenced, and killed, that would indeed be murder, it would be illegal killing. And that happens.
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