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No……sigh….
My “relationship” is based on my continual EXPERIENCING of Jesus and God — like any other “relationship.”
And Jesus and God is Christianity, so yes. Also, which Jesus, the angel / divine being who never walked on the earth or the fictional gospel Jesus? Because it would be more cool having a "relationship" with an angel / divine being than a fictional allegory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose
I have stated this repeatedly now….
Christianity is the “religion” built around the teachings of Jesus — if there are problems, contradictions, misinterpretations within the scriptures of Christianity— I leave those problems in God’s hands.
As I said, it is based on the created religion (quotes not required) Christianity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose
Do you want to keep going around and around on your hamster wheel of redundancy, or can you just relax and allow for different experiences to happen for different people in this amazing adventure called life?
….
What makes you think I am not relaxed? I have no problem with others having different experiences, I am just amused that you say your relationship is not based on Christianity and then say it is.
Fun — We will now start to see the atheists jump in with all their resistance to any evidence on OBEs.
Atheists are HIGHLY resistant because it turns their limited-materialist view upside down that they are so “religious” about.
We are HIGHLY resistant because we recognize there are alternative and better explanations, because the evidence for the last 2000 years plus has always been naturalism, and because we know how dubious many religious claims are. Yes, our materialist view is limited to credible evidence, and not wishful thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose
Just like the Flat-Earthers — all the previous evidence available at the time showed us a flat earth, but when Galileo and his creative independent thinking associates shook up their egos and closed-mindedness with new discoveries and EVIDENCE— BIG RESISTANCE to the evidence that the earth was actually round and revolved around the sun.
Galileo? You need to go back a few thousand years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose
Atheism is a belief system just like religion. Atheists “believe” there is no God.
Religions can’t PROVE there is a God, and atheists can’t PROVE there isn’t a God.
…
It is (usually) a simple belief (although many will argue it is not a belief), it is not a system. But it is based on the evidence we have, not on wishful thinking.
No, it is the usual junk sold to people who want to believe but will not do an in-depth study of their own sources.
"There’s proof and evidence now. Try to keep up…"
When she said that the other day, I was thinking that I was glad that she fully accepts evolution and all it entails. After all, "There's proof and evidence now".
Harry — lol ……wow, RESISTANT MUCH???
Thanks, Made my point nicely!
Yes, there is proof happening on OBEs now — I showed just a small group of studies showing the proof, there are more currently being done, and if you want to cherry pick your resisters then you must also be assuming hundreds of doctors, surgeons , nurses and staff are just flat out lying when they acknowledge even go publicly on record that there’s no way their patient could have possibly seen their actions, conversations, post-it notes brought in during the surgery, tools, folder on top of shelfs, shoe on roof, etc etc
I understand this all feels scary to you as it passes the limitations of the materialists’ view of the world.
But, hey — even the flat-earthers eventually came on board once the evidence couldn’t be ignored anymore….
Last edited by mountainrose; 04-08-2024 at 02:08 PM..
Harry — lol ……wow, RESISTANT MUCH???
Thanks, Made my point nicely!
Yes, there is proof happening on OBEs now — I showed just a small group of studies showing the proof, there are more currently being done, and if you want to cherry pick your resisters then you must also be assuming hundreds of doctors, surgeons , nurses and staff are just flat out lying when they acknowledge even go publicly on record that there’s no way their patient could have possibly seen their actions, conversations, post-it notes brought in during the surgery, tools, folder on top of shelfs, shoe on roof, etc etc
I understand this all feels scary to you as it passes the limitations of the materialists’ view of the world.
But, hey — even the flat-earthers eventually came on board once the evidence couldn’t be ignored anymore….
Sorry, mountainrose. That's not proof. It's evidence, but it is a long way from being proof.
Here's why. Only the patient in those circumstances is able to testify about what they saw. Every one of them is a patient. They are sick. People in septic shock see and say all kinds of strange things. (Don't ask me how I know! ) Many of them are or have been oxygen deprived, and it is well known that oxygen deprivation can cause a brain to do some bizarre things.
You may have evidence, but you don't have proof. Proof would be testable and repeatable.
Sorry, mountainrose. That's not proof. It's evidence, but it is a long way from being proof.
Here's why. Only the patient in those circumstances is able to testify about what they saw. Every one of them is a patient. They are sick. People in septic shock see and say all kinds of strange things. (Don't ask me how I know! ) Many of them are or have been oxygen deprived, and it is well known that oxygen deprivation can cause a brain to do some bizarre things.
You may have evidence, but you don't have proof. Proof would be testable and repeatable.
Okay, evidence but not proof…..YET…. ( it was certainly proof to our cardiologist neighbor (and so many other doctors) I cited earlier who witnessed this with his heart transplant patient)
They have shown it is NOT O2 deprivation nor from the drugs etc. Too much credible research about this, and I don’t have time to collect it all to show here.
But I’ll back off for now from posting about it, and people can do their own research….
If it wasn’t on the radar with evidence, then major universities would not be funding whole departments and getting grants to study this currently.
Lots of resistance around it, and I do understand why….
This is a quote that I agree with. The source/link is below.
"The proof of God’s existence is an “interior” experience — a direct, intuitive, and purely personal perception. No book, no lecture, no experience of someone else, not even a personal encounter with a God-knowing saint can prove these things to you."
This is a quote that I agree with. The source/link is below.
"The proof of God’s existence is an “interior” experience — a direct, intuitive, and purely personal perception. No book, no lecture, no experience of someone else, not even a personal encounter with a God-knowing saint can prove these things to you."
I had a direct intuitive purely personal interior experience and was a Christian for about thirty years.
Unfortunately I also had direct, objective, personal exterior experiences that, on balance, overwhelmed the personal interior stuff. And once that happened and I admitted that I no longer believed, the personal interior experience turned out to be motivated reasoning, agency inference, confirmation bias, and a nest of other logical fallacies.
Or as Hitchens once said, it all disappeared in a puff of logic.
Personal subjective experiences can feel and be very compelling, but I can personally testify that they are also quite ephemeral, and proof of nothing but to the experiencer and sometimes that doesn't even hold up.
I had a direct intuitive purely personal interior experience and was a Christian for about thirty years.
Unfortunately I also had direct, objective, personal exterior experiences that, on balance, overwhelmed the personal interior stuff. And once that happened and I admitted that I no longer believed, the personal interior experience turned out to be motivated reasoning, agency inference, confirmation bias, and a nest of other logical fallacies.
Or as Hitchens once said, it all disappeared in a puff of logic.
Personal subjective experiences can feel and be very compelling, but I can personally testify that they are also quite ephemeral, and proof of nothing but to the experiencer and sometimes that doesn't even hold up.
But you can only say that about yourself and your experience.
It would not necessarily apply to everyone else and their experience.
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) Many of them are or have been oxygen deprived, and it is well known that oxygen deprivation can cause a brain to do some bizarre things.