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But you are who you are today because of your life experiences ... both good and bad.
What else could anyone be but the sum of their experiences? And how can you or I accurately imagine what we'd be with a different and hopefully less painful set of experiences? There are too many causal chains interacting to make confident predictions.
"Things are the way they are because they got that way" and hopefully you have a good attitude and have made the best of the hand life has dealt you ... I would simply argue that all things being equal, you'd generally be a more vital, peaceful and hopeful person with less suffering, more innocence, etc.
There's an important exception, which is when a challenge comes along that draws your awareness to some personal ignorance or defect that you weren't paying attention to, and it happens that the resulting changes that awareness prompts in you are on balance better for you than whatever loss or pain you experienced -- or at least could be rationalized as such. But in my experience such realizations tend to merely blunt, rather than completely trump, one's losses.
All of this of course is in a sense a pointless discussion. Things happen; we like some of those things, and dislike others; and things reach a stable state / "new normal" of some kind mostly because they have to -- the alternatives are pretty lousy. My own journey was just such that I was over-sold on the notion that god blesses the righteous and confounds the wicked, every time. Some theists would say that is just naive, and I agree. But it was the "truth" I was nurtured on, just the same.
What else could anyone be but the sum of their experiences? And how can you or I accurately imagine what we'd be with a different and hopefully less painful set of experiences? There are too many causal chains interacting to make confident predictions.
"Things are the way they are because they got that way" and hopefully you have a good attitude and have made the best of the hand life has dealt you ... I would simply argue that all things being equal, you'd generally be a more vital, peaceful and hopeful person with less suffering, more innocence, etc.
There's an important exception, which is when a challenge comes along that draws your awareness to some personal ignorance or defect that you weren't paying attention to, and it happens that the resulting changes that awareness prompts in you are on balance better for you than whatever loss or pain you experienced -- or at least could be rationalized as such. But in my experience such realizations tend to merely blunt, rather than completely trump, one's losses.
All of this of course is in a sense a pointless discussion. Things happen; we like some of those things, and dislike others; and things reach a stable state / "new normal" of some kind mostly because they have to -- the alternatives are pretty lousy. My own journey was just such that I was over-sold on the notion that god blesses the righteous and confounds the wicked, every time. Some theists would say that is just naive, and I agree. But it was the "truth" I was nurtured on, just the same.
bold above, nope.
because vitality, peace, contentment, and optimism
do not come to us through avoiding and never having to deal with challenges, obstacles, difficulties. that is a misnomer.
they come to us through meeting the challenges life sends our way head on and growing and developing inner resources we never were even aware we had within us. we grow immensely going through that including then having a deep sense of peace and fortitude that we can stand on our own two feet and we will be OK no matter what.
when we weather storms we can come through much stronger.
than the one who believes their happiness and peace depend on not having problems.
success is not avoiding storms or fearing them or bemoaning their occurrence in our life. success is navigating the storms and not letting them sweep us away or knock us down.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-03-2023 at 07:28 PM..
again, that is a belief, the bold above. and it is a crippling belief with the heaviness of doom and gloom.
we have a choice about the beliefs we hold, and the beliefs we hold very much script how we feel about the life we live and how we feel about the experiences that have come our way throughout our life.
everyone may have had trauma in their life. but not everyone continues to carry drag around or consider it "inevitable" and "normal" to have an 800 pound gorilla sitting on their chest, weighing them down with depression, or swept under the rug.
healing is available to the extent that a person (a) believes it is possible, and (b) avails themself of it.
it is not a con, it is not trickery, it is not semantics, it is not "kidding themself" and it is not mental gymnastics.
it is healing and it is a reality.
Ugh...
You can call my opinion(s) about this whatever you like. Yes, my belief, and one I think well justified. I wasn't arguing that people don't have a choice along these lines or that there is not always something people can do to help themselves or others. I thought I made that quite clear. Where you go off the rails is exaggerating what pain, suffering or depression may linger no matter what a person might be able to do to alleviate the pain of serious trauma.
The loss of a child for example. Most reasonable people realize there will be varying degrees of pain, suffering and mourning. To be expected to one extent or another. Most reasonable people realize that the pain may never go away entirely however. I happened to know people who have suffered such trauma, and in many ways they are "my hero" for being able to carry on the way they do, but ask them if the pain is ever really gone, and they will tell you no. They live with it as best they can. On close to a daily basis if not a daily basis.
Describing such pain the way you do and explaining what you do is just you being your argumentative self again. No need to call it "a crippling belief" or "the heaviness of doom and gloom." What I'm explaining is not someone who "continues to carry drag around" (whatever that means), but one doesn't necessarily have to have their head down as a result of such pain if that's what you mean. I did not suggest it's "normal to have an 800 pound gorilla sitting on their chest" or "weighing them down with depression, or swept under the rug."
I don't know why I bother to straighten out your comments, because this is just your way. If there is anything "inevitable," it's your inclination to twist comments like mine or subjects like these all to smithereens.
But you are who you are today because of your life experiences ... both good and bad.
No doubt true that our life experiences in large part make us who we are, "both good and bad," and the effort to promote more good over bad is never ending...
Not to be confused with the natural experience of pain, sorrow and mourning that can prove both good and/or bad depending on how one manages such emotions. Expecting not to have them is foolish no matter how expert someone wants to suggest they may be about feel-good self-help remedies and advice.
No doubt true that our life experiences in large part make us who we are, "both good and bad," and the effort to promote more good over bad is never ending...
Not to be confused with the natural experience of pain, sorrow and mourning that can prove both good and/or bad depending on how one manages such emotions. Expecting not to have them is foolish no matter how expert someone wants to suggest they may be about feel good self-help remedies and advice.
That sounds like it comes from the YouTube people promoting this.
I don't pay attention to any of that.
All of this of course is in a sense a pointless discussion. Things happen; we like some of those things, and dislike others; and things reach a stable state / "new normal" of some kind mostly because they have to -- the alternatives are pretty lousy. My own journey was just such that I was over-sold on the notion that god blesses the righteous and confounds the wicked, every time. Some theists would say that is just naive, and I agree. But it was the "truth" I was nurtured on, just the same.
This notion related to cause/effect is one of the most debilitating for many people who blame themselves for their misfortune or believe it to be some sort of punishment for something they did wrong. Typically the belief that god is blessing you when things go right and punishing you when things go wrong. I feel sorry for people who think that way, because as you well point out, "things happen." Bad things happen that are no one's fault. Too bad and very sad when people blame themselves for when things go bad for no reason of their own doing. That is truly a miserable, unfortunate and unjustified way to navigate the challenges in life that can sometimes be challenging enough without all that ridiculous heavy baggage.
bold above, nope.
because vitality, peace, contentment, and optimism
do not come to us through avoiding and never having to deal with challenges, obstacles, difficulties. that is a misnomer.
they come to us through meeting the challenges life sends our way head on and growing and developing inner resources we never were even aware we had within us. we grow immensely going through that including then having a deep sense of peace and fortitude that we can stand on our own two feet and we will be OK no matter what.
when we weather storms we can come through much stronger.
than the one who believes their happiness and peace depend on not having problems.
success is not avoiding storms or fearing them or bemoaning their occurrence in our life. success is navigating the storms and not letting them sweep us away or knock us down.
At least I'm not the only one you misunderstand and mine are not the only comments you mischaracterize like you do this one too. With mordant as well, you can't seem to get it right. You have an uncanny way of taking "A, B and C" and describing it as "X, Y and Z."
That sounds like it comes from the YouTube people promoting this.
I don't pay attention to any of that.
I am not promoting that YouTube video, and what I know about this is both from professional training as an Executive Coach and more than a bit of directly relevant life experience. I'm not a proponent of learning anything about this sort of thing by way of YouTube videos. I don't pay much attention to most of those kinds of videos either, but all that aside...
Is there something about my statement that you put in bold that you don't agree with? Or are you too just wanting to be argumentative? Nothing I've explained about this is generally controversial among all of us who have shared these same emotions over the course of our lives.
I am not promoting that YouTube video, and what I know about this is both from professional training as an Executive Coach and more than a bit of directly relevant life experience. I'm not a proponent of learning anything about this sort of thing by way of YouTube videos. I don't pay much attention to most of those kinds of videos either, but all that aside...
Is there something about my statement that you put in bold that you don't agree with? Or are you too just wanting to be argumentative? Nothing I've explained about this is generally controversial among all of us who have shared these same emotions over the course of our lives.
Why do you assume that I'm posting "just to be argumentative" ?
LOA is a philosophy, a spiritual philosophy, not a professional training tool IMHO.
This notion related to cause/effect is one of the most debilitating for many people who blame themselves for their misfortune or believe it to be some sort of punishment for something they did wrong. Typically the belief that god is blessing you when things go right and punishing you when things go wrong. I feel sorry for people who think that way, because as you well point out, "things happen." Bad things happen that are no one's fault. Too bad and very sad when people blame themselves for when things go bad for no reason of their own doing. That is truly a miserable, unfortunate and unjustified way to navigate the challenges in life that can sometimes be challenging enough without all that ridiculous heavy baggage.
"Taking responsibility" for navigating whatever situations in life come our way
is NOT the same as "blaming" self or anyone else. They are very different and are diametrically opposed in the effect they have.
Health and well being and peace of mind very much are enhanced by the ability to differentiate between "blame" and "taking responsibility" and put them into application. Blaming (self or others) keeps a person stuck and drains energy. Taking responsibility allows a person to move forward and increases vitality.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 09-04-2023 at 10:18 AM..
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