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Yes, the tattered "remnant" that will make it into heaven, while 99% of humanity burns for eternity. Quite the Master Plan for saving humanity from a fate that god himself decreed to begin with.
If that does happen to be the Truth, if that is indeed God's Master Plan, then so be it. The issue is Truth, not what we think of it. If I believed your description were the Truth, I would live accordingly - not rail at the unfairness of it.
Your description is by no means the only understanding of Christianity, even among those who posit themselves as mainstream biblical Christians. Exceedingly few Christians claim to fully understand God's eternal perspective and what you call the Master Plan. We understand the Truth as it has been revealed and trust that the mysteries will be answered in a manner consistent with God's nature as it has been revealed; there are indeed mysteries and room for considerable flexibility in the doctrines. If it turns out we are flatly wrong and it's all been an evil illusion - the work of Descartes' hypothetical evil genius - well, so be it.
My conviction is that Christianity is a God-revealed religion and the closest approximation of ultimate Truth available to us. Mainstream Christianity 101 may prove to be signficantly flawed in some respects when the Truth is seen more clearly. But again, the issue is where Truth is to be found, not what we think of it. One of the arguments in favor of Christianity is that it isn't the sort of religion most people would've invented for themselves.
... the issue is where Truth is to be found, not what we think of it. One of the arguments in favor of Christianity is that it isn't the sort of religion most people would've invented for themselves.
I completely agree that truth simply exists; it is not relevant what people think of it. But in my experience, humans aren't very inclined to embrace truths they don't like. Such as that life isn't personal or directed for our benefit by a benevolent deity, no matter how much you want it to be that way; or that Covid still poses substantial risks, even though we really are "over it".
I think the great religions didn't evolve to cater to individual preferences but to reproduce the ideology effectively and sustainably over time. It's very similar to how we didn't evolve biologically to ENJOY life, but to SURVIVE. So long as we reproduce and nurture our young long enough for THEM to reproduce, it doesn't "matter" whether we are, say, in physical or psychological pain most of the time. Similarly, optimizing for a religion having a reasonable degree of influence on the world stage for centuries doesn't necessarily mean individual adherents will get all their questions answered and hopes and dreams realized or even be treated well by the religious community. That is why so much of that stuff is displaced to an alleged afterlife.
My conviction is that Christianity is a God-revealed religion and the closest approximation of ultimate Truth available to us.
How did you come to that conviction? Because it “felt” good or right? Because everyone in your social group thought so too?
If Christianity is the One True Religion of the Creator of the Universe, then why did He/She allow the religion to devolve into thousands of denominations and sects that disagree on so many crucial matters? Why did said Creator allow upstart religions like Islam to arise and capture over a billion souls?
It makes no sense to me. If the Creator can’t even keep his own religion from going off the rails, what good is He? How is He going to save souls if he can’t keep the Great Rescue Ship afloat? How is the situation any different than if there were no such Being at all?
At some point, adding epicycles gets intolerably complicated. There’s a much simpler answer that explains all of the observations.
If that does happen to be the Truth, if that is indeed God's Master Plan, then so be it. The issue is Truth, not what we think of it. If I believed your description were the Truth, I would live accordingly - not rail at the unfairness of it.
Your description is by no means the only understanding of Christianity, even among those who posit themselves as mainstream biblical Christians. Exceedingly few Christians claim to fully understand God's eternal perspective and what you call the Master Plan. We understand the Truth as it has been revealed and trust that the mysteries will be answered in a manner consistent with God's nature as it has been revealed; there are indeed mysteries and room for considerable flexibility in the doctrines. If it turns out we are flatly wrong and it's all been an evil illusion - the work of Descartes' hypothetical evil genius - well, so be it.
My conviction is that Christianity is a God-revealed religion and the closest approximation of ultimate Truth available to us. Mainstream Christianity 101 may prove to be signficantly flawed in some respects when the Truth is seen more clearly. But again, the issue is where Truth is to be found, not what we think of it. One of the arguments in favor of Christianity is that it isn't the sort of religion most people would've invented for themselves.
The truth is simple, Jesus offered a betrothal to non Jewish Israelis like Paul to convert to Judaism, Jesus died, and ten years it was learned that Gentiles could also be added to the chosen nation, and so they accepted Isaiah 56's promise and started becoming one with Jews.
One hundred years it was all but finished.
Gentiles separared themselves from the chosen nation when they converted back to their original paganism in Easter and Christmas with the SPECIFIC intention of no longer having anything to do with the people of the chosen nation.
The point is unity, adoption, you cant have unity between two nations where each has their own worship system, it cant work, IMPOSSIBLE.
Now there is 30,000 flavors of Christianity because they all invented their own Sabbaths and laws to separate and divide from the Jewish people, and then they go into forums debating truth, when the truth is simple, none of them practice the same religion as Christ, none of them have a law to even search out truth because they have no foundation besides their own laws in their own imagination because they disrespect Moses so much, that they dont even believe the witness of Jesus.
People claiming to be in a new covenant only made to wed Israel to Judah, but they are neither Israel or Judah, and are decieved to believe a lie..
Not being able to break out of the chains of what they were born in, they continue assuming their particular Christianity must be the right one out if 30,000 like they hit the lotto.
The truth is Judaism.
Christianity was sect of Judaism and anyone who says it wasnt is lying to themselves, the entire book surrounds a temple with its own religion showing converts to that religion at their temple. It displays converts to Judaism to where Paul took Israelis to have them circumcised in view of priests of Judaism so they could enter the temple.
No Gentile convert could ever do the same, Paul circumcised non Jewish Israelis, and had they not been Israeli, they had no chance of entering the temple, and had I been an uncirmcused Israeli, I would have gotten circumcised in order to be able to tread in places no Gentile born person may tread, circumcised or uncircumcised.
It would be so stupid for a Gentile to circumcise themselves as a grown up convert, it would have served no purpose, but to the grown non Jewish Israeli converts, men would have lined up to be circumcised and rightfully so.
Christianity cant figure this out because they have abandoned Moses, the law, and Jesus. The only people walking in the religion of Messiah are Jews and the world has continually oppressed and killed them because they wont assimilate and stop walking in the religion of Messiah.
The chosen nation cannot walk in made up invented religions involving Paganism or any other worship system, God demands them to walk in his ways, his laws, his worship system.
Christianity pushes a false narrative as if their religion could be found in the New Testament when its not even close, its the opposite.
If you ask a Christian how he got to the wrong Sabbath or how he keeps Easter instead of Passover or to Christmas instead of the Feast of Tabernacles, well, its like they suddenly get stuck on stupid, they cant answer it and the ones who try say things like, " Nobody knows, its a great mystery, it can never be figured out."
They say, " We dipped our fork in the pot, and behold, this is what came out of the pot. "
They say, " Who us? What do you mean? We tossed our gold in the fire and behold, The calf."
They havent an earing between them.
I am certain Christians are saved, and that they will be blessed way above this life, but there are 3 kingdoms, 3 outcomes, and Christians willingly choose to remmain in the court of Gentiles, and the court is one of 3 kingdoms.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 08-10-2023 at 09:47 PM..
If that does happen to be the Truth, if that is indeed God's Master Plan, then so be it. The issue is Truth, not what we think of it. If I believed your description were the Truth, I would live accordingly - not rail at the unfairness of it.
Your description is by no means the only understanding of Christianity, even among those who posit themselves as mainstream biblical Christians. Exceedingly few Christians claim to fully understand God's eternal perspective and what you call the Master Plan. We understand the Truth as it has been revealed and trust that the mysteries will be answered in a manner consistent with God's nature as it has been revealed; there are indeed mysteries and room for considerable flexibility in the doctrines. If it turns out we are flatly wrong and it's all been an evil illusion - the work of Descartes' hypothetical evil genius - well, so be it.
My conviction is that Christianity is a God-revealed religion and the closest approximation of ultimate Truth available to us. Mainstream Christianity 101 may prove to be signficantly flawed in some respects when the Truth is seen more clearly. But again, the issue is where Truth is to be found, not what we think of it. One of the arguments in favor of Christianity is that it isn't the sort of religion most people would've invented for themselves.
Whether or not an assertion is right or wrong is the issue of truth-seeking. The belief of what is true rests solely in our hearts. It is a subjective act, a natural act, and I would even say, a God-given right. It is often claimed that God is objective or at least God's truth is objective. Does that mean it doesn't come from the heart of God? And when we seek it, we are honest about the truthfulness and righteousness of what we have heard and what has been decreed because we have a heart. Why must it be brushed off as railing at the unfairness of it?
But thankfully all this speaking out has resulted in a culture where we can choose to believe something or not, or to involve ourselves it in or not. Not allowing religious belief to encroach on the secular aspect of our lives is something we have to actively monitor.
If that does happen to be the Truth, if that is indeed God's Master Plan, then so be it. The issue is Truth, not what we think of it. If I believed your description were the Truth, I would live accordingly - not rail at the unfairness of it.
Your description is by no means the only understanding of Christianity, even among those who posit themselves as mainstream biblical Christians. Exceedingly few Christians claim to fully understand God's eternal perspective and what you call the Master Plan. We understand the Truth as it has been revealed and trust that the mysteries will be answered in a manner consistent with God's nature as it has been revealed; there are indeed mysteries and room for considerable flexibility in the doctrines. If it turns out we are flatly wrong and it's all been an evil illusion - the work of Descartes' hypothetical evil genius - well, so be it.
My conviction is that Christianity is a God-revealed religion and the closest approximation of ultimate Truth available to us. Mainstream Christianity 101 may prove to be signficantly flawed in some respects when the Truth is seen more clearly. But again, the issue is where Truth is to be found, not what we think of it. One of the arguments in favor of Christianity is that it isn't the sort of religion most people would've invented for themselves.
You have misidentified the source of Truth. It is Jesus, NOT the "precepts and doctrines of men" ABOUT HIM. Christianity is not the ultimate Trtujh. Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, period!
Churches are big business. It takes money to support a building and a staff. It just makes sense that with congregations dwindling, large churches give way to small, manageable ones.
The focus of a church should be to help and support its communities, but they can’t if the money goes to keeping a building going.
Our business for 20+ years was exclusively with churches. Abruptly, the catholic diocese in our area closed down 50, one hundred year old churches. It had to, as a cost cutting move. We struggled for a few years, but then had to shut down.
You have misidentified the source of Truth. It is Jesus, NOT the "precepts and doctrines of men" ABOUT HIM. Christianity is not the ultimate Trtujh. Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, period!
You have misidentified the source of Truth. It is Jesus, NOT the "precepts and doctrines of men" ABOUT HIM. Christianity is not the ultimate Trtujh. Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life, period!
Which you say as you quote the Gospel of John. The same Jesus in the same Gospel also said, "There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day." John 12:49.
Churches are big business. It takes money to support a building and a staff. It just makes sense that with congregations dwindling, large churches give way to small, manageable ones.
It's not that simple. Just as businesses will often do, it sometimes works better to consolidate scattered small congregations into larger ones. Just as family farms gave way to factory farms, for instance. I'm not advocating for this ... just pointing it out.
Another response that works in some contexts IS downsizing. But particularly in higher population areas, it's not always the best. If a medium sized city has 3 Baptist churches for example, they might consolidate into one. There are small towns where there has been, for over a hundred years, a 'community church' of no particular denomination -- so this is not a new thing. But ... the trend toward megachurches is also well-noted by now.
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The same Jesus in the same Gospel also said, "There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day." John 12:49.
