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Why is that a tough sell? A compelling value proposition should not be a "tough sell".
The Bible - and Jesus himself - says the Gospel message will be a tough sell. For the most part, an impossibly tough sell. It's quite uncanny that the Bible does not view the First Coming and the initiation of the Kingdom of God as the beginning of what will gradually become a Christian utopia on earth. Had this been what the First Century authors predicted, it would have been very understandable, but the Bible foresees precisely the opposite until the Second Coming occurs. Christians can anticipate rejection, imprisonment, torture and death.
Why? Because the core message of Christianity is that human nature is fundamnentally opposed to the Kingdom of God. In Christian theology, humans occupy a fallen creation in which evil, pride and enmity with God are the order of the day. This is the central truth of Christianity. Until one accepts it, the Gospel message is an impossibly tough sell.
The real mystery is why anyone does accept it. Christians attribute this to God's calling and conviction through his Holy Spirit. Calvinists have one view of that, Arminians another, but in any event it's a mystery.
In short, it's a tough sell because it's contrary to the most fundamental aspects of human nature. This is why Christian churches so easily fall into the trap of conforming to the world - because that version becomes a distinctly easier sell. The problem, as these churches are learning, is that those who accept the real Gospel message recognize that the watered-down, world-friendly version is fundamentally false. For many of the worldly, there is no particular attraction in a church that really offers nothing the world doesn't - they might as well go for a Sunday morning picnic.
It's true that the constant need / request for $$ is part of the problem, but if the church was really this loving cushion from the vicissitudes of the world, people wouldn't mind the cost.
At least an insurance company gives you money in your (contractually-defined) hour of need. I don’t know of any church that does anything of the sort.
At least an insurance company gives you money in your (contractually-defined) hour of need. I don’t know of any church that does anything of the sort.
At least an insurance company gives you money in your (contractually-defined) hour of need. I don’t know of any church that does anything of the sort.
C'mon, plenty of churches help others financially.
At least an insurance company gives you money in your (contractually-defined) hour of need. I don’t know of any church that does anything of the sort.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
I do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801
C'mon, plenty of churches help others financially.
Examples? I honestly don’t know of any. Every church I’ve ever been in believed the typical Protestant Work Ethic. If you were in need it was because you were lazy or were being (justifiably) punished by God for something.
I would guess our Catholic is filled anywhere from 30- 70% every week. Not even close to 3% as in the article. Not sure how geotracking works but I, as do most everyone in church shuts off Optus phone completely as the priest asks. So, there is a good chance that data is not being picked up. Not much has changed over the years around here. People of all ages attend.
Examples? I honestly don’t know of any. Every church I’ve ever been in believed the typical Protestant Work Ethic. If you were in need it was because you were lazy or were being (justifiably) punished by God for something.
My parents went though some financial trouble when I was a kid, and our church helped them out.
Over the years, more than one church I've been involved in has given my wife and I what I consider large sums of money that we never asked for, and we've been offered much more that we have declined.
My wife and I have thankfully never been in true financial need, but we've been reassured many times in multiple different churches that they would be ready to help us out if we ever needed anything.
This type of thing is standard practice in every church I've ever been a part of.
My parents went though some financial trouble when I was a kid, and our church helped them out.
Over the years, more than one church I've been involved in has given my wife and I what I consider large sums of money that we never asked for, and we've been offered much more that we have declined.
My wife and I have thankfully never been in true financial need, but we've been reassured many times in multiple different churches that they would be ready to help us out if we ever needed anything.
This type of thing is standard practice in every church I've ever been a part of.
I'm VERY skeptical of this post. I went to catholic church for a large part of my life, and I NEVER heard of one of those churches giving "large sums of money that 'were' never asked for" to anyone. NEVER heard of it, not even once.
Examples? I honestly don’t know of any. Every church I’ve ever been in believed the typical Protestant Work Ethic. If you were in need it was because you were lazy or were being (justifiably) punished by God for something.
What kind of churches did you go to?
The Reformed Church I grew up in tended to lean that way, wherein they gave oodles to missionaries in the jungle to develop a written language for some obscure tribe in order to tranlate the Bible while leaving needy congregation members to fend for themselves.
But in later years, that same church, which my parents continued to belong to, helped families facing difficulties with food, rent, etc. Of course the flip side to that are that there are people who survive by milking churches for a few years, and when it's obvious that it is no longer a temporary situation but a lifestyle, those types find a fresh church. But I wasn't even a member of that church when the house I rented burned down down, and money was collected to help us.
Both Episcopal churches I attended gave money to parishioners who were having difficulties as well as outsiders who asked for help, but with reservations. You wouldn't believe how many random people call churches asking for money. Since we were not exactly a rich parish, we couldn't hand cash to everyone who asked, but the priest would ask us for donations of supermarket gift cards for people in need. He tended to dip into his own wallet to help the randos who showed up with their hands out. There was a motel nearby where social services stashed people in transition who were waiting for housing, and they came by every so often.
One active parishioner lost his job and it took a few months for him to find a new one. The Vestry voted to pay his mortgage one month when his savings were running out.
My parents went though some financial trouble when I was a kid, and our church helped them out.
Over the years, more than one church I've been involved in has given my wife and I what I consider large sums of money that we never asked for, and we've been offered much more that we have declined.
My wife and I have thankfully never been in true financial need, but we've been reassured many times in multiple different churches that they would be ready to help us out if we ever needed anything.
This type of thing is standard practice in every church I've ever been a part of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
I'm VERY skeptical of this post. I went to catholic church for a large part of my life, and I NEVER heard of one of those churches giving "large sums of money that 'were' never asked for" to anyone. NEVER heard of it, not even once.
I was an evangelical Protestant for many years (the majority of my life). That said, my fellow parishioners since I've been Catholic have been extremely generous as well.
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