Enlightenment (Buddhist, hell, church, atheist)

[PhinneyWalker]

I have been an agnostic since age 7 believe it or not. I am a spiritual person if not a religious person, and the thing that has become more and more important to me as my life approaches its denouement has been whether or not I have achieved any level of enlightenment as to my raison d'etre and what things are wrong. For me personally, I feel I have reached at least one solid conclusion which is not to cause suffering to other life, which is why I am vegetarian. Animals are the most innocent and the most helpless beings on the planet, and the pain and suffering we cause to them is unforgivable and must stop. I doubt it will stop during my lifetime, though. This feels like the one Truth I have been able to reach after all these years on this earth. This is my one strain of enlightenment if you will.

What about you? Do you feel you have reached any level of enlightenment, and if so, what is it?

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by PhinneyWalker

I have been an agnostic since age 7 believe it or not. I am a spiritual person if not a religious person, and the thing that has become more and more important to me as my life approaches its denouement has been whether or not I have achieved any level of enlightenment as to my raison d'etre and what things are wrong. For me personally, I feel I have reached at least one solid conclusion which is not to cause suffering to other life, which is why I am vegetarian. Animals are the most innocent and the most helpless beings on the planet, and the pain and suffering we cause to them is unforgivable and must stop. I doubt it will stop during my lifetime, though. This feels like the one Truth I have been able to reach after all these years on this earth. This is my one strain of enlightenment if you will.

What about you? Do you feel you have reached any level of enlightenment, and if so, what is it?

I find the eating of animals to be a conundrum. One thing that has helped me deal with it is to know that Theravada Buddhist monks virtually all eat meat. But I do try to do my part by restricting myself to one meat meal per day. That's the best I can do.

I am also getting toward the end of life, and I have set aside any belief in christianity and any other god-based religions. I am a Buddhist, but one that thinks through things independently and try to learn to accept things as they are. Not easy for a stressed person as I can be.

[mordant]

I just remarked to my wife this morning that one of the reasons I love her is because she is constantly evolving and becoming more self-aware. TBH in my view, most people aren't so much. In her case a lot of it is transcending a chaotic and un-nurturing childhood involving the death of her mother and her emotionally unavailable father. She has come to see that she has been too demanding / controlling / judging of people who don't meet her expectations as a result. She has worked through some relationship issues in a super admirable fashion lately, and has even reconnected with her elderly father in a substantive and kind and non-reactive manner that I did not honestly think possible.

My version of this has been to shed the religious ideation I was brought up in and its associated ridiculously unrealistic expectations. I honestly assumed / felt at a deep level that god, the universe and/or life itself owed me things and that it was "unfair" that they did not come to me. My journey has been more about shedding that privileged view of myself as a hero acting out some sort of divine drama on a cosmic stage, and understanding that life owes me nothing and in fact can provide me with nothing in some intentional manner. Of course this was more subtle than I'm presenting it. I wasn't an overt asshat about it. But it sufficiently colored my expectations and interpretations of events that it impacted my ability to enjoy life and to see the good in it, and to accurately predict outcomes, etc.

If my journey or my wife's can be seen as "spiritual yet not religious" then so be it. We don't think of it that way. To us, it is just becoming more self aware and empathetic, more proactive and less reactive, more mindful / observant and less automatic. There is nothing about atheism that precludes gaining a better understanding of your true place in the world, and being more anchored / centered in it, in healthier ways. Indeed, arguably, being unencumbered with too many assumptions or assumed structure can be a feature rather than a bug. One just goes wherever evidence leads.

[cb2008]

Originally Posted by PhinneyWalker

I have been an agnostic since age 7 believe it or not. I am a spiritual person if not a religious person, and the thing that has become more and more important to me as my life approaches its denouement has been whether or not I have achieved any level of enlightenment as to my raison d'etre and what things are wrong. For me personally, I feel I have reached at least one solid conclusion which is not to cause suffering to other life, which is why I am vegetarian. Animals are the most innocent and the most helpless beings on the planet, and the pain and suffering we cause to them is unforgivable and must stop. I doubt it will stop during my lifetime, though. This feels like the one Truth I have been able to reach after all these years on this earth. This is my one strain of enlightenment if you will.

What about you? Do you feel you have reached any level of enlightenment, and if so, what is it?

I think I understand what you mean by a religious person - who values religious services and engagement, such as worshiping at the temple or church, reciting prayers and meditating, following some dietary practices and observance, and of course belief in a Higher Power.
I am curious as to how you define a spiritual person?

I used to think I am, or want to be, spiritual rather than religious. I have expressed that often. However As my life approaches its dénouement, - I like the way you have put it - I appear to need both. I find my spirituality in practicing my religion - studying the texts with care and comprehension, reciting prayers, and practising mindfulness and meditation. I find i am achieving more patience, expressing kindness and love more freely, and gaining the ability to live with my anxieties and yet find comfort and peace. I feel I am getting there.

[Thoreau424]

Enlightenment is clearly a high goal worthy of time, focus, and effort.

I'd also put attitude - healthy attitude - along with that, as a key attribute as one navigates through all there is in life. Not hating others, not immediately shutting down possibilities in the universe, keeping an open mind, keeping receptive with all senses alert, staying positive, being helpful, etc. Also putting value in every day and every moment - being present - to avoid the mechanicalness of the masses and time.

I try not to stop and think I've reached any goal. I see it as continuous, and won't stop until the last breath.

[BaptistFundie]

Jesus Christ saved me when I was a young man. That's my enlightenment. Nothing compares to that.

[Northsouth]

Originally Posted by PhinneyWalker

I have been an agnostic since age 7 believe it or not. I am a spiritual person if not a religious person, and the thing that has become more and more important to me as my life approaches its denouement has been whether or not I have achieved any level of enlightenment as to my raison d'etre and what things are wrong. For me personally, I feel I have reached at least one solid conclusion which is not to cause suffering to other life, which is why I am vegetarian. Animals are the most innocent and the most helpless beings on the planet, and the pain and suffering we cause to them is unforgivable and must stop. I doubt it will stop during my lifetime, though. This feels like the one Truth I have been able to reach after all these years on this earth. This is my one strain of enlightenment if you will.

What about you? Do you feel you have reached any level of enlightenment, and if so, what is it?

In a word....yes. I am extremely enlightened and have been for the last 10 years or so. Shedding Fundamentalism after being a believer for well over half my life is almost more enlightenment than I can stand. I've even become enlightened about my political affiliations and all that entails. It's fabulous.

I set myself free from bondage, and not just religion and politics. I spit in the face of EVERYTHING I was taught. Wiped the slate clean and I have hit reset on all of it. I was completely tortured inside and I knew from an early age that what was being forced on me was not right and I rebelled. That is until I became the very thing I despised...a raving mad, proselytizing, aaf Evangelical Pentecostal Fundamentalist Christian.

It was my last ditch effort to test myself and prove I was worthy of going to heaven. LOL I went against my own personality and non-belief because the fear of hell was still lingering. As an atheist, I'm much happier and satisfied in the knowledge that it's ok to be yourself and thumb your nose at anything other than that.

I don't feel like you do about vegetarianism but that's ok. If you feel enlightened by that then you've made the right choice for you. Kudos.

[Oakback]

I think it would presumptuous to declare myself " enlightened".

Have I acheived more clarity? Can I recognize "Truth" when I see it. Am I more empathetic, patient, and loving.

I think so. Compared to the man I was decades ago.

Yet, there is a part of me that believes the longer I live, the less I " know"

Regarding animal cruelty;
I go back and forth between eating meat, and being vegetarian.

When I do eat meat, we do so infrequently. And I'm sure to give thanks. And try to buy meat raised and culled humanely.

Most animals we eat, owe their very existence and care to us. And could not survive without us.

Nevertheless, we owe them respect and good care.

[Cruithne]

Originally Posted by PhinneyWalker

I have been an agnostic since age 7 believe it or not. I am a spiritual person if not a religious person, and the thing that has become more and more important to me as my life approaches its denouement has been whether or not I have achieved any level of enlightenment as to my raison d'etre and what things are wrong. For me personally, I feel I have reached at least one solid conclusion which is not to cause suffering to other life, which is why I am vegetarian. Animals are the most innocent and the most helpless beings on the planet, and the pain and suffering we cause to them is unforgivable and must stop. I doubt it will stop during my lifetime, though. This feels like the one Truth I have been able to reach after all these years on this earth. This is my one strain of enlightenment if you will.

What about you? Do you feel you have reached any level of enlightenment, and if so, what is it?

I'm with you. I've been vegetarian now for 37 years.
I found a dead mouse the other day in a humane trap I'd put down months earlier and forgot to check for a couple of days. I was devastated that I'd caused the mouse to starve to death. I console myself that I have been able to release other mice in the past using the same method.

As to enlightenment, yes I feel I have found that through science. I'm glad to live in an age of open mindedness, discovery and reason. I won't bore people with it but I have written many times about this being a form of spirituality for me.

[Michael Way]

I will continue to eat meat. Thank you.