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Good quote from Tyson, but the bold seems the main stumbling block for most!!
That's why he calls it "A Great challenge in life," and so it is...
At the same time, Tyson is an astrophysicist and not one to shy away from pointing at ways to get to the truth and/or dismiss the absurdities. This also becomes obvious if you've ever listened to his lectures. I'm a fan, and I have enjoyed many a listen to what he always explains in an interesting and amusing way. About what we DO know or CAN know...
I have been an agnostic since age 7 believe it or not. I am a spiritual person if not a religious person, and the thing that has become more and more important to me as my life approaches its denouement has been whether or not I have achieved any level of enlightenment as to my raison d'etre and what things are wrong. For me personally, I feel I have reached at least one solid conclusion which is not to cause suffering to other life, which is why I am vegetarian. Animals are the most innocent and the most helpless beings on the planet, and the pain and suffering we cause to them is unforgivable and must stop. I doubt it will stop during my lifetime, though. This feels like the one Truth I have been able to reach after all these years on this earth. This is my one strain of enlightenment if you will.
What about you? Do you feel you have reached any level of enlightenment, and if so, what is it?
But did you think that if animals are not supposed to be eaten then why are they made up with meat?
Plus, who knows if we also cause excruciating pain and suffering to plants and trees when we prune them and harvest fruits and vegetables?
Esecially stuff like carrots, turnips, onion etc where we have to kill the plant to eat it’s root.
Perhaps our ears can’t hear their screams and our eyes can’t see their misery?
I am at peace with being a part just like the animals are. Without needing or thinking there must be more. Is it not to be at peace that might be considered the ultimate goal? Along with living a life of being kind and considerate to others. To be at peace and to "live and let live?"
I look at nature for guidance in many respects, including that of eating meat. Look at nature and many an animal eats meat regardless the pain and suffering of the prey. In fact, many if not most of the animals slaughtered for purposes of providing meat to humans don't suffer anything like animals that are eaten by other animals, so what's right or wrong? Nature seems to say it's okay to eat meat. This is why in part I'm more inclined to promote "humane" treatment of animals than to become a vegetarian.
-- LM
If you let Nature guide your actions then consider this : Cats eat their kittens. Do you do the same? No you do not.
If one wants meat, eat meat. There is no need to rationalize to absurdity. Eating meat or not eating meat is a choice based on diet and the harmful effects of certain foods to our system, both to body and mind.. This is a knowledge known to ancient rishis in India from ancient times. It has nothing to do with love of animals, although kindness ti all beings is good. Meat is not forbidden to Hindus, only that both meat and alcohol dulls one’s mind and raises unhealthy desires and emotions. That was their theory based on careful observation.
Buddha taught kindness to all beings, including to oneself. He did not say anything about what to eat, only not to crave. Basically if you are offered food with kindness, say thank you and eat even if it is meat. Just Dont demand a cow needs to be slaughtered so you can have its most favorite part. That was his teaching.
If you let Nature guide your actions then consider this : Cats eat their kittens. Do you do the same? No you do not.
If one wants meat, eat meat. There is no need to rationalize to absurdity. Eating meat or not eating meat is a choice based on diet and the harmful effects of certain foods to our system, both to body and mind.. This is a knowledge known to ancient rishis in India from ancient times. It has nothing to do with love of animals, although kindness ti all beings is good. Meat is not forbidden to Hindus, only that both meat and alcohol dulls one’s mind and raises unhealthy desires and emotions. That was their theory based on careful observation.
Buddha taught kindness to all beings, including to oneself. He did not say anything about what to eat, only not to crave. Basically if you are offered food with kindness, say thank you and eat even if it is meat. Just Dont demand a cow needs to be slaughtered so you can have its most favorite part. That was his teaching.
You might feel differently if you were the chopping the heads of chickens, slitting the throats of cows, and so forth. Instead the dirty part of the work is done for you.
In Thailand if you have a friendly attitude you can pretty much explore as you wish. One day I was walking along a street in Bangkok and came to what almost looked like a large circus tent. I decided to see what it actually was. Un-air conditioned, it was where they cut up meat that had already been butchered elsewhere. Chopping up sides of beef, cutting pork chops from the side of a pig, cutting up headless chickens, and so forth. I wished I hadn't walked in. And this wasn't even where they slaughtered the animals. The unpleasant part of eating meat has been almost totally removed from what the typical consumer experiences. We go into a nice, clean grocery store and buy chicken breasts that look nice and neat in a wrapped container after most of the blood has already been drained out. And we feel just a little disgusted if some of the blood or juices are dripping out of that nice, neat container. We don't see the pain caused by eating meat, but are disgusted with it we see a coyote take down a rabbit or something like that. And yet, it's not really much different.
There is much debate in Buddhism about eating meat and how that comports with the precept that it is unwise to cause suffering of sentient beings.
If you let Nature guide your actions then consider this : Cats eat their kittens. Do you do the same? No you do not.
If one wants meat, eat meat. There is no need to rationalize to absurdity. Eating meat or not eating meat is a choice based on diet and the harmful effects of certain foods to our system, both to body and mind.. This is a knowledge known to ancient rishis in India from ancient times. It has nothing to do with love of animals, although kindness ti all beings is good. Meat is not forbidden to Hindus, only that both meat and alcohol dulls one’s mind and raises unhealthy desires and emotions. That was their theory based on careful observation.
Buddha taught kindness to all beings, including to oneself. He did not say anything about what to eat, only not to crave. Basically if you are offered food with kindness, say thank you and eat even if it is meat. Just Dont demand a cow needs to be slaughtered so you can have its most favorite part. That was his teaching.
Counting to ten here as I consider whether I should even try to untangle this take on my prior comment, but you are right that I don't eat kittens (though if starving...), and needless to say there is much that goes on in the animal kingdom that I also don't do, but this doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't look to nature for guidance where it seems there is "a lesson" worth heeding.
Your all-or-nothing manner of looking at everything seems absurd to me, but I am sure that you are very familiar by now with my alternative manner of looking at things that includes all the "good, bad and ugly." I use what is called discernment, no matter the focus of attention or learning.
Meanwhile, if you want to continue insisting many vegetarians are not vegetarians because of concern for animals, perhaps it would be more productive and instructive for you to discuss that fact with them. I've not got the patience.
Counting to ten here as I consider whether I should even try to untangle this take on my prior comment, but you are right that I don't eat kittens (though if starving...), and needless to say there is much that goes on in the animal kingdom that I also don't do, but this doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't look to nature for guidance where it seems there is "a lesson" worth heeding.
Your all-or-nothing manner of looking at everything seems absurd to me, but I am sure that you are very familiar by now with my alternative manner of looking at things that includes all the "good, bad and ugly." I use what is called discernment, no matter the focus of attention or learning.
Meanwhile, if you want to continue insisting many vegetarians are not vegetarians because of concern for animals, perhaps it would be more productive and instructive for you to discuss that fact with them. I've not got the patience.
I don't know if this is true or not, but one of my doctor's said that most of his patients (not all) who go vegetarian end up in trouble sooner or later.
But you're right...it (and many things) don't have to be all or nothing at all. We see this among some vegetarians, but we also see it in religion. Either you're a 'real' christian or not...and you can't do it cafeteria style; well, yes you can. Same with Buddhism. Same with any religion. It's permissible -- and even good -- to think for oneself. But that scares many people.
Counting to ten here as I consider whether I should even try to untangle this take on my prior comment, but you are right that I don't eat kittens (though if starving...), and needless to say there is much that goes on in the animal kingdom that I also don't do, but this doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't look to nature for guidance where it seems there is "a lesson" worth heeding.
Your all-or-nothing manner of looking at everything seems absurd to me, but I am sure that you are very familiar by now with my alternative manner of looking at things that includes all the "good, bad and ugly." I use what is called discernment, no matter the focus of attention or learning.
Meanwhile, if you want to continue insisting many vegetarians are not vegetarians because of concern for animals, perhaps it would be more productive and instructive for you to discuss that fact with them. I've not got the patience.
I have no interest in telling vegetarians or meat eaters anything. Grain and the animals that eat the grain, and the humans that eat the animal, and the bugs that eat the human, all are food. We are made of food and become food. We are all animals. Avoiding meat as concern for animals is a bit of a BS. Do you USE insect repellent, weed killer on your yard? Well you killed something. Life and death are part of living, inevitable. Even vegetarians who drink milk and other dairy products should consider how cows are are milked and treated.
If we do have to kill animals for food we can do it humanely, raise them humanely, that is something to fight for.
Buy your turkey early. There is a shortage of the big bird.
I have been an agnostic since age 7 believe it or not. I am a spiritual person if not a religious person, and the thing that has become more and more important to me as my life approaches its denouement has been whether or not I have achieved any level of enlightenment as to my raison d'etre and what things are wrong. For me personally, I feel I have reached at least one solid conclusion which is not to cause suffering to other life, which is why I am vegetarian. Animals are the most innocent and the most helpless beings on the planet, and the pain and suffering we cause to them is unforgivable and must stop. I doubt it will stop during my lifetime, though. This feels like the one Truth I have been able to reach after all these years on this earth. This is my one strain of enlightenment if you will.
What about you? Do you feel you have reached any level of enlightenment, and if so, what is it?
I wouldn't call it enlightenment so much as expanding the circle of compassion to include all sentient beings. I do agree with you tho at least as far as the farming of animals raised in inhuman conditions is something that needs to be addressed.
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Good quote from Tyson, but the bold seems the main stumbling block for most!!
