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I post on musicbanter with a song but thought maybe it could be shared here. It has a AA thought of the day, meditation of the day, plus a prayer of the day.
No one cares what the AA cult does. They are great in publicity, but very, very poor in real outcomes. The same applies to all 12 step programs, as they all want you to bow down to a "higher power", they publicized alcoholism as a disease.
It is an addiction. Addiction has very little in common with diseases. It is a group of behaviors, and calling it a disease interferes with the understanding of addictions.
Where is the infectious agent, the pathological biological process, or the biologically degenerative condition?
Promulgating addictions as a disease is a concept that needs to stop. Just like we stopped seeing homosexuality as a mental disorder.
I post on musicbanter with a song but thought maybe it could be shared here. It has a AA thought of the day, meditation of the day, plus a prayer of the day.
Ahhh! Though I can't cipher it, normstad has read between the lines and your AA OP has something to do with seeing homosexuality as a mental disorder. So, no deal.
No one cares what the AA cult does. They are great in publicity, but very, very poor in real outcomes. The same applies to all 12 step programs, as they all want you to bow down to a "higher power", they publicized alcoholism as a disease.
It is an addiction. Addiction has very little in common with diseases. It is a group of behaviors, and calling it a disease interferes with the understanding of addictions.
Where is the infectious agent, the pathological biological process, or the biologically degenerative condition?
Promulgating addictions as a disease is a concept that needs to stop. Just like we stopped seeing homosexuality as a mental disorder.
Wrong-O
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AA is neutral towards the disease model of alcoholism though its program is sympathetic to it, but its wider acceptance is due in part to many AA members independently promulgating it.[7] Regarding its effectiveness, a recent scientific review has shown that AA does as well or better than clinical interventions or no treatment at all; in particular, AA produces better abstinence rates at lower medical costs.[8][9][10]
I am typing this from the living room of my only child, who has been sober for more than four years, in part because of AA, but not just AA. I have never heard her call alcoholism a disease, but she does have an illness known as bipolar disorder.
She does not "bow down" to any higher power, and if you knew her, you would actually find that idea quite funny. Yes, for some, the "higher power" is a God or a religion, but that is not the concept for everyone.
You can argue about whether or not addiction is a disease if that is what gives you jollies. I don't know and I don't really care. Addiction does exist. You can stand on your little hill and and point and sneer down at addicts and tell them they are weak or just to stop or whatever it is that blows your skirt up and makes you feel superior, but addiction is real, no matter what category it falls under, and some people do find that following the 12-step process keeps them from partaking in their drug of choice. Some do not. No one has all the answers, and most certainly not the people who have never experienced addiction or loved someone who has. If it helps one or two or five thousand people, and it has, why would you not be happy that they were able to overcome their addiction via a 12-step program? That is the question you have to answer to yourself.
Ahhh! Though I can't cipher it, normstad has read between the lines and your AA OP has something to do with seeing homosexuality as a mental disorder. So, no deal.
Drinking in and of itself isn't "bad" or wrong. Jesus and the disciples drank wine, so I'm not going to knock it.
If we're talking about addictive behavior, then that's wide open to nearly everything.
Better to focus on the underlying roots of unhealthy behavior than just the externals where they can show up. If someone is lonely and goes to bars, telling them not to go to bars won't solve or fix the underlying loneliness.
Drinking in and of itself isn't "bad" or wrong. Jesus and the disciples drank wine, so I'm not going to knock it.
If we're talking about addictive behavior, then that's wide open to nearly everything.
Better to focus on the underlying roots of unhealthy behavior than just the externals where they can show up. If someone is lonely and goes to bars, telling them not to go to bars won't solve or fix the underlying loneliness.
That may not be the Buddhist view.
One of our precepts is confusing in regard to how it's interpreted. Some see the Precept (one of the 5 main ones) as saying: "Refrain from intoxicants that cloud the mind". Others of us see it as saying: "Refrain from intoxicants that can cloud the mind". It's sort of like the guy who drives after a drink or two and feels it is okay because his mind is not clouded...but may be wrong.
No one cares what the AA cult does. They are great in publicity, but very, very poor in real outcomes. The same applies to all 12 step programs, as they all want you to bow down to a "higher power", they publicized alcoholism as a disease.
It is an addiction. Addiction has very little in common with diseases. It is a group of behaviors, and calling it a disease interferes with the understanding of addictions.
Where is the infectious agent, the pathological biological process, or the biologically degenerative condition?
Promulgating addictions as a disease is a concept that needs to stop. Just like we stopped seeing homosexuality as a mental disorder.
Addiction is a mental "illness"...at first: Can't self-control excessive indulgence.
With "substance addiction" (alcohol, drugs, tobacco, etc)...after a time, once "physical withdrawal" occurs without the substance...it then becomes a disease (dis-ease).
Though that doesn't mean the best one to turn to, to stop using, is named Will Power. That could be the "Higher Power" that AA instructs you to turn to.
As far as homosexuality (I'm talking the physical sex act) goes...that is no different than any other fetish one may find "turns them on". One can get "addicted" to fetishes too.
I am typing this from the living room of my only child, who has been sober for more than four years, in part because of AA, but not just AA. I have never heard her call alcoholism a disease, but she does have an illness known as bipolar disorder.
Congratulations on her longer period of sobriety. I can't imagine how hurtful it must have been seeing your daughter in the state she was in. I have no doubt it was a struggle.
I am very familiar with bipolar disorder, and also recognize that those so afflicted have a higher propensity towards substance abuse. As you know, it is also controllable with medication. I am also aware that bipolar cases can vary in impact, with some being lighter, and other persons having much stronger an affliction.
However, don't just take my word for it that AA promotes alcoholism as a disease. Here is a USA government source that states the same. I do not make this type of comment up.
She does not "bow down" to any higher power, and if you knew her, you would actually find that idea quite funny. Yes, for some, the "higher power" is a God or a religion, but that is not the concept for everyone.
It is the most frequent comment I have heard from members of Al-Anon. Our experiences differ.
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You can argue about whether or not addiction is a disease if that is what gives you jollies. I don't know and I don't really care. Addiction does exist. You can stand on your little hill and and point and sneer down at addicts and tell them they are weak or just to stop or whatever it is that blows your skirt up and makes you feel superior, but addiction is real, no matter what category it falls under, and some people do find that following the 12-step process keeps them from partaking in their drug of choice. Some do not. No one has all the answers, and most certainly not the people who have never experienced addiction or loved someone who has. If it helps one or two or five thousand people, and it has, why would you not be happy that they were able to overcome their addiction via a 12-step program? That is the question you have to answer to yourself.
I don't sneer at additions. I object to an organization which promulgates that alcoholism is a disease, and not an addiction. I am well aware that medical and psychological groups view it as an addiction, which is the correct assessment. I thought I made that clear in my initial post.
I made many of my comments due to my experience with an ex-girlfriend who was a member of Al-Anon. I went to numerous meetings with her, and I found that a] reference to the need to subscribe to a "higher power" was core to discussions, and b] the whole experience was very "culty" to me.
AA follows the classic "BITE" model of cults. If you are not familiar with it, it was developed by Stephen Hassan. "BITE” stands for Behavior, Information, Thought, and Emotional control. AA does all of this.
I have a huge issue with cults. Why? Because they control people and promote that they are "the" answer. Think about this in terms of AA or its associated groups like Al-Anon, or any other 12 step program.
Are you are taught that the teachings and techniques are perfect. So if they are not working as intended, it’s because you are not following them the right way, or trying hard enough. How many times have I heard this at the Al-Anon meetings?
Does AA define you, tells you what you are (an alcoholic or victim of alcoholism), who you are, and how to see yourself?
AA (and Al-Anon) preaches that questioning or doubting the teachings is wrong and seen as an issue/problem of YOU have.
Is the organization a closed system? You bet it is. Any issues you have with it have to stay in-house; there is no outside and/or objective governing body to bring your concerns to. This is especially true of each chapter. The regional meetings just enforce this (I've been to them)
Dependency is built into the system by making you feel that you cannot trust yourself on your own, and left to your own devices you would always make the wrong decision and your life would spiral downward. Any cult empathizes this. Hence, the emphasis on having a "sponsor" inside the group to be in constant contact with. And it's a two way street, with the "sponsor" contacting you also.
You never graduate. You are never done. Your participation and adherence to the teachings are expected to be lifelong. AA absolutely preaches this. Al-Anon preaches this. Narcotics Anonymous preaches this.
Has the AA model helped some people? I have no doubt it has. However, it does not help even most people, and in fact, is harmful to some. However, independent studies have shown that AA "success" rate long term are very low, likely in the 8-12% range.
I'm not going to read all that, sorry. Life is short, and I don't care enough about whether or not AA qualifies as a cult.
I CAN see where AA is a cult to some, and I believe my dd does, too. And no, it doesn't have a high success rate, nothing does. That said, I don't understand the intense vitriol against the organization. If you or anyone else has the magic bullet that cures addiction any better, you'd be millionaires.
I went to Al-Anon three times, by the way, after I had my ex removed by the police. She got her addiction via her genes. It wasn't for me because it was too late and I was no longer interested in learning how to live with an addict. I just wanted a divorce.
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