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Care to elaborate? As, the way I read it, you are presuming a divine intervention into the process of karma>Destiny. "there is an intelligence IN"? This reads as if there is some sort of an outside guiding force for the process. Is that what you mean?
If yes, there is none. A thought is conceived by mind and, if not discarded by that mind, is entertained by it and, eventually, let out through seven opening in the skull, usually, through frontal cavities or nasal cavities. Therafter, thought, marked with that particular mind stamp, stays in the form plane of the physical world, waiting for its exteriorization, or manifestation, into the physical plane, in form of some event that will directly influence that mind/Self.
Each Self, through its existences, becomes a comet, with a tail of unrealized thoughts, following it.
That is Destiny.
This is why discarding of karma with "good deeds" is not possible as, in the process, one simply creates more karmaic Destiny.
But no, there is no "judge" involved into the way of karma>destiny. Free will. The only guidance is that Self's voice of conscience, which is voice of the Rightness and Reason, gently warning Self on moral and ethical intentions. But that's it.
One is always blacksmithing its Destiny as he wishes.
In all fairness to CB, we can't say with finality that there is no guiding force behind karma. I don't believe there is evidence to support such a 'divine' intervention, but again, I don't think we can state that as an absolute fact. Rather, if you do certain things, there will be some results. Notice I did not say 'certain results', and that is the very reason that I dismiss any divine justice system (which seems to be western pop thinking) involved with karma. One person murders and goes to prison, another murders and is never caught. And still another who didn't commit the murder ends up in prison. You would think divine justice would be more even.
I find destiny to be a problematic word. For example, the Oxford definition is rather confusing: "the events that will necessarily happen to a particular person or thing in the future. "she was unable to control her own destiny". the hidden power believed to control what will happen in the future; fate. "he believes in destiny"" What a mess that definition is!
Care to elaborate? As, the way I read it, you are presuming a divine intervention into the process of karma>Destiny. "there is an intelligence IN"? This reads as if there is some sort of an outside guiding force for the process. Is that what you mean?
If yes, there is none. A thought is conceived by mind and, if not discarded by that mind, is entertained by it and, eventually, let out through seven opening in the skull, usually, through frontal cavities or nasal cavities. Therafter, thought, marked with that particular mind stamp, stays in the form plane of the physical world, waiting for its exteriorization, or manifestation, into the physical plane, in form of some event that will directly influence that mind/Self.
Each Self, through its existences, becomes a comet, with a tail of unrealized thoughts, following it.
That is Destiny.
This is why discarding of karma with "good deeds" is not possible as, in the process, one simply creates more karmaic Destiny.
But no, there is no "judge" involved into the way of karma>destiny. Free will. The only guidance is that Self's voice of conscience, which is voice of the Rightness and Reason, gently warning Self on moral and ethical intentions. But that's it.
One is always blacksmithing its Destiny as he wishes.
Sure, thank for asking. I forgot for a moment that "intelligence" is a coded word, heavy with creator god. I do NOT mean divinity/God because Brhman does not act, it simply is, it IS the order. It is this order that I mean by intelligence which is evident in the way the planets and stars and time and space function. Karma follows that order as well.
I agree with what you call destiny, which again is a loaded term. What follows from one birth to the next are these tendencies, karma-phala, fruit of action, that are created as the result of accumulated karma, and which make the difference between two siblings born and raised by the same parents to one becoming a Gandhi and one becoming a Hitler.
I agree good or bad, karma is karma, it is action. But what we experience as suffering IS a discharge of past karma, penance if you will, and thus the sense of acceptance rather than feeling victimized is a helpful strategy to reduce suffering. Many religions encourage fasting - this is penance for past actions that bore bad karma.
To attain nirvana/moksha requires the discharge of all actions without desire or attachment to the results, karma-phala. Such deeds, Nishkamya Karya, accumulate no karama-phala, fruit of karma.
I do not wish to quarrel with your theories, i am only repeating what Krishna advises Arjuna to do when he drops his weapons and refuses to engage in battle because of his doubts and fear of sin.
Sure, thank for asking. I forgot for a moment that "intelligence" is a coded word, heavy with creator god. I do NOT mean divinity/God because Brhman does not act, it simply is, it IS the order. It is this order that I mean by intelligence which is evident in the way the planets and stars and time and space function. Karma follows that order as well.
I agree with what you call destiny, which again is a loaded term. What follows from one birth to the next are these tendencies, karma-phala, fruit of action, that are created as the result of accumulated karma, and which make the difference between two siblings born and raised by the same parents to one becoming a Gandhi and one becoming a Hitler.
I agree good or bad, karma is karma, it is action. But what we experience as suffering IS a discharge of past karma, penance if you will, and thus the sense of acceptance rather than feeling victimized is a helpful strategy to reduce suffering. Many religions encourage fasting - this is penance for past actions that bore bad karma.
To attain nirvana/moksha requires the discharge of all actions without desire or attachment to the results, karma-phala. Such deeds, Nishkamya Karya, accumulate no karama-phala, fruit of karma.
I do not wish to quarrel with your theories, i am only repeating what Krishna advises Arjuna to do when he drops his weapons and refuses to engage in battle because of his doubts and fear of sin.
So we are on the same page. Just slightly different terms. Of course, it is all intelligent in its basics, as Consciousness, or what you refer to as Brahman, is operating principle of everything. Only naive believe that, anything complex may operate haphazardly.
What you mention here: all actions without desire or attachment to the results,
We refer to as "thinking without creating thoughts". As we believe that thinking precedes everything. For example, mathematical, artistic thoughts do not create Destiny, as they are not attached to the physical.
But that's pretty much semantics.
Good, I am glad we are on common grounds.
Though, I still have a question:
What in the world was this about: You mean it is one’s DESTINY to endure pesky posts from pests? Because of karma.
I wonder then what the DESTINY of the pest is who delivers the posts. Would it have any relation to the seeding of unholy thoughts?
Interesting angles there, Ukroz.
That came through very offensive....
So we are on the same page. Just slightly different terms. Of course, it is all intelligent in its basics, as Consciousness, or what you refer to as Brahman, is operating principle of everything. Only naive believe that, anything complex may operate haphazardly.
What you mention here: all actions without desire or attachment to the results,
We refer to as "thinking without creating thoughts". As we believe that thinking precedes everything. For example, mathematical, artistic thoughts do not create Destiny, as they are not attached to the physical.
But that's pretty much semantics.
Good, I am glad we are on common grounds.
Though, I still have a question:
What in the world was this about: You mean it is one’s DESTINY to endure pesky posts from pests? Because of karma.
I wonder then what the DESTINY of the pest is who delivers the posts. Would it have any relation to the seeding of unholy thoughts?
Interesting angles there, Ukroz.
That came through very offensive....
So we are on the same page. Just slightly different terms. Of course, it is all intelligent in its basics, as Consciousness, or what you refer to as Brahman, is operating principle of everything. Only naive believe that, anything complex may operate haphazardly.
Only the naive believe that others argue anything complex operates haphazardly.
Only the naive believe that complexity requires an intelligence behind it, although they can never explain how that intelligence is not complex.
But perhaps the problem lies in the use of language, as Daoism describes.
Only the naive believe that others argue anything complex operates haphazardly.Only the naive believe that complexity requires an intelligence behind it, although they can never explain how that intelligence is not complex.But perhaps the problem lies in the use of language, as Daoism describes.
"I know nothing, except the fact of my ignorance."
---- Diogenes
Only the naive believe that others argue anything complex operates haphazardly.
Only the naive believe that complexity requires an intelligence behind it, although they can never explain how that intelligence is not complex.
But perhaps the problem lies in the use of language, as Daoism describes.
Apologies for smart response, it was too tempting.
Now, on the serious note.
And why exactly have you decided, that intelligence is complex?
There is notion of Atom. Not an atom, they teach you at school about. The Atom. The Atom is the smallest, indivisible unit, matter is made out of. the Atom is not known to science, as science keeps "peeling an onion" continuously unlayering another layer and then another layer and so on. When, eventually, if at all possible, science will get to the bottom, the core of everything, that will be atoms. The Atoms.
Reason I mention this is as follows. Atom is not complex. It can not be divided. So is Intelligence, or Consciousness. It is not complex, just like Atom. It is indivisible.
I am trying to think of analogy. Nothing, better than Love, comes to mind.
Love exists, can't deny that. People moved mountains, conquered countries or killed themselves for Love. But, can you divide Love? Put it on Petry dish? Under microscope? No, that's naive.
What you referring to as "complex" Consciousness, as intelligence is derivative to Consciousness, is same way. It is Consciousness. That's it. Indivisible, immeasurable, limitless, non-temporal, eternal, non-corporeal, non-physical.
Ergo, the premise of you line - Only the naive believe that complexity requires an intelligence behind it, although they can never explain how that intelligence is not complex - is off the wrong premise from its first step.
Of course, if that is your conviction, then we have idle conversation, as you stay with yours, I stay with mine.
I don't believe in it in the sense that somebody has a destination for me. But I may say something like "I can picture myself doing that." And it gets done. One friend has been trying to convince me to buy an instrument; I have been to the instrument stores quite a few times. So far, I can't picture myself playing it so it is not in my destiny as far as I can tell even if he can picture me playing it.
So it is not a matter of whether I have an easy time believing something or not. I either picture it or I don't.
Nice post, ukrkoz.
I see my destiny as more what I imagine working for me as well. If that's another way to put what you are describing here...
As for an instrument, the want to play music is typically something people don't think too much or long about. I'm enjoying a book right now about how the members of the Rolling Stones got started at such a young age, with no formal training whatsoever. They just had to play music as a result of listening to the albums that "blew their mind" as youngsters. For most musicians, it either happens or it doesn't just like that. No real thinking involved. It's more about feeling...
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