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No...I'm serious.
You even have a version of "Thou Shalt Not Steal" as a precept in there.
Precepts are not commandments. If you don't follow a precept, there is no cosmic punishment that will reign down on you. You might suffer some consequences (as in cause and effect) because you were unwise.
They're not commandments.
I know you want them to be so you can argue. But they are not commandments.
Precepts are not commandments. If you don't follow a precept, there is no cosmic punishment that will reign down on you. You might suffer some consequences (as in cause and effect) because you were unwise.
They're not commandments.
I know you want them to be so you can argue. But they are not commandments.
This is a board for Religion and Spirituality.
"Commandment" is even a known synonym for "precept".
And you list "Don't Steal" as a precept in your Creed.
Thus my noting it being a synonymous basis for "Commandments".
You may not have realized that is what you put forth...but you did...by even the most basic analysis.
The negative "Karma" being the consequence for violations.
This is a board for Religion and Spirituality.
"Commandment" is even a known synonym for "precept".
And you list "Don't Steal" as a precept in your Creed.
Thus my noting it being a synonymous basis for "Commandments".
You may not have realized that is what you put forth...but you did...by even the most basic analysis.
The negative "Karma" being the consequence for violations.
Karma is simply cause and effect.
This is my last response in this thread to your arguing.
But I think you ought to reconsider telling other people what their creed is.
it's interesting. when thoughtful responses are offered, expressing a variety of views, insights, and observations to the discussion, which is after all the purpose for this forum and these threads, they are flippantly dismissed as "you want to argue" or "so what." while at the same time boasting about "being fully allowed to think" yet all the while condemning others for "not thinking."
my observation is that if someone claims to know that others are "not thinking" during their reading and recitation and other rituals, and condemns others as "not being allowed to think" then whatever "creed" they are actually following (versus whatever collection of words may be posted the day before on a blog in a public forum) leans heavily on condemning others, and claims of superiority and supremacy.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 03-31-2022 at 02:49 PM..
This is a board for Religion and Spirituality.
"Commandment" is even a known synonym for "precept".
And you list "Don't Steal" as a precept in your Creed.
Thus my noting it being a synonymous basis for "Commandments".
You may not have realized that is what you put forth...but you did...by even the most basic analysis.
The negative "Karma" being the consequence for violations.
Quote:
Definition of precept
1 : a command or principle intended especially as a general rule of action
2 : an order issued by legally constituted authority to a subordinate official
Seems to me some kind of a consequence will rain down from some kind of authority if one violates a precept. Maybe Christian language is difficult to lose even for wannabe Buddhists
Seems to me some kind of a consequence will rain down from some kind of authority if one violates a precept. Maybe Christian language is difficult to lose even for wannabe Buddhists
What would that "authority" be? Buddhists don't believe in god (although they're allowed to). Buddha won't punish you...because a monk said to me when we talked about this, "Buddha can't do anything. He's dead". It goes back to karma, a concept that is a little loose. One view of karma is that it is cause and effect. For example, if you lie...it isn't that someone is going to literally punish you, it's that people will stop trusting you and that will make it more difficult to deal with some people. There are people who will tell you that karma is a literal punishment. That's fine. That's their creed. I expressed my creed.
That's the whole point of the exercise in writing out your creed. Here's the alternative -- you state a general creed (such as the one we rote-ly stated in catholicism, whether we actually believed in each word that was in the creed. That's simply not the way Buddhism -- at least Theravada Buddhism -- works.
As far as whether or not the precepts are commandments, I'll just refer you to:
Not all Buddhists agree on precepts. That is why I think it is important for a Buddhist to think through what the purpose of the precepts is and develop a personal creed.
But of course, CB, you may believe anything you wish.
This matter of a creed is something that I thought quite a bit about even while I was still a catholic. At each mass we would say the creed, out loud. The problem was that it got to be like anything else that is done by rote memory (or simply reading it). People said it without really thinking about it, not unlike the way at masses people rise or kneel depending on when the bells ring. It's not unlike when children say the Pledge Of Allegiance every morning 2,340 times; no thinking, just rote repetition, thus virtually meaningless. I got to the point in the catholic church that I started leaving certain words or phrases out, or silently changed them in my mind as everyone else said the creed out loud. Of course, once I got to Buddhism, where we are fully allowed to think, it really did become up to me to develop my own creed. But that's the difference between a commandments-based religion and a philosophical-based religion.
I am trying to see the difference between a creed and belief.
It has never occurred to me that when someone repeats a mantra, or the Pledge, or kneel to pray, that they are not thinking. How or why does anyone need to prove that those acts mean something to them, and to whom? It means whatever it means to them, that is karma.
I am trying to see the difference between a creed and belief.
It has never occurred to me that when someone repeats a mantra, or the Pledge, or kneel to pray, that they are not thinking. How or why does anyone need to prove that those acts mean something to them, and to whom? It means whatever it means to them, that is karma.
First off, that's no definition of karma I ever saw. Not even sure what you meant by that.
But let's take the Pledge. In my school, when I was a child, we started learning the Pledge in kindergarten. And for the next 13 years, we recited the Pledge every morning until we graduated. That's approximately 2,340 times. But to be fair, let's take the population I worked with as a teacher and then principal. Kids 12-14 years old. I am telling you without reservation that very few kids in middle school -- even in the largest GTCenter in the state -- could satisfactorily explain the following phrases:
I pledge allegiance to the flag
to the republic for which it stands
one nation under god, indivisible (remember the Civil War?)
with liberty and justice for all
I know many adults who couldn't explain that first phrase (what would that allegiance include?). or accurately define a 'republic'. or be foolish enough state that nation has always had liberty and justice for all.
And yet, the vast majority Americans repeated the pledge every day in school...or at least heard it. In my state it was mandatory to at least hear it every morning of every school day. And guess what...I could say all those lines and not mean it at all. And that's why I think that every person who 'rotely' states a creed -- as we do with The Pledge or in many churches a standard creed -- ought to think through exactly what they are saying they believe in.
First off, that's no definition of karma I ever saw. Not even sure what you meant by that.
But let's take the Pledge. In my school, when I was a child, we started learning the Pledge in kindergarten. And for the next 13 years, we recited the Pledge every morning until we graduated. That's approximately 2,340 times. But to be fair, let's take the population I worked with as a teacher and then principal. Kids 12-14 years old. I am telling you without reservation that very few kids in middle school -- even in the largest GTCenter in the state -- could satisfactorily explain the following phrases:
I pledge allegiance to the flag
to the republic for which it stands
one nation under god, indivisible (remember the Civil War?)
with liberty and justice for all
I know many adults who couldn't explain that first phrase (what would that allegiance include?). or accurately define a 'republic'. or be foolish enough state that nation has always had liberty and justice for all.
And yet, the vast majority Americans repeated the pledge every day in school...or at least heard it. In my state it was mandatory to at least hear it every morning of every school day. And guess what...I could say all those lines and not mean it at all. And that's why I think that every person who 'rotely' states a creed -- as we do with The Pledge or in many churches a standard creed -- ought to think through exactly what they are saying they believe in.
That is your opinion of other people and what they ought to do. You are free to hold that. I believe everyone takes away what they are meant to take away from their practice. That is what karma is.
I don't know what you have learnt about karma from Buddhism. When ever I read anyone explain any concept of Buddhism it gives me a headache, a whole lot of words that never amount to anything meaningful to me. I don't know how Buddha's clear 8 fold path and the 4 Truths (?) became a jumble of words.
I mean no disrespect, it is my failure to understand.
Seems to me some kind of a consequence will rain down from some kind of authority if one violates a precept. Maybe Christian language is difficult to lose even for wannabe Buddhists
I do believe you have made a good analysis of the situation.
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