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"If your proof for God starts with "Science can't explain...", then God becomes simply a placeholder for your ignorance. This also implies that as we learn new things day after day, year after year, and the scope of our ignorance shrinks, God becomes smaller. If God is simply the gaps in our knowledge, we kill a piece of God every time we discover, learn, understand.
“If in fact the frontiers of knowledge are being pushed farther and farther back (and that is bound to be the case), then God is being pushed back with them, and is therefore continually in retreat.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Theologian.
Last edited by InsaneInDaMembrane; 03-16-2013 at 11:18 AM..
"If your proof for God starts with "Science can't explain...", then God becomes simply a placeholder for your ignorance. This also implies that as we learn new things day after day, year after year, and the scope of our ignorance shrinks, God becomes smaller. If God is simply the gaps in our knowledge, we kill a piece of God every time we discover, learn, understand.
“If in fact the frontiers of knowledge are being pushed farther and farther back (and that is bound to be the case), then God is being pushed back with them, and is therefore continually in retreat.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Theologian.
This is the disingenuous game played by atheists to pretend their irrational and unsupportable premise of "No God" is the scientific one. The reality is quite the opposite. As we learn " new things day after day, year after year". . . the scope of our KNOWLEDGE OF God increases. Our understanding of God expands every time we discover, learn and understand what science has discovered. It is the Luddite religious leaders who have stagnated our knowledge of God to the ignorance of our ancient ancestors and called it Faith. It is their sins (pride, hubris, arrogance, lust for power and greed) that have been the main stumbling blocks to understanding our God. They have repeatedly over the centuries refused to follow Christ's admonishment to NOT "put new wine in old wineskins." They have continued to proclaim the "old wineskins" and have forced each new generation to fit.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-16-2013 at 11:30 AM..
This is the disingenuous game played by atheists to pretend their irrational and unsupportable premise of "No God" is the scientific one. The reality is quite the opposite. As we learn " new things day after day, year after year". . . the scope of our KNOWLEDGE OF God increases. Our understanding of God expands every time we discover, learn and understand what science has discovered. It is the Luddite religious leaders who have stagnated our knowledge of God to the ignorance of our ancient ancestors and called it Faith. It is their sins (pride, hubris, arrogance, lust for power and greed) that have been the main stumbling blocks to understanding our God. They have repeatedly over the centuries refused to follow Christ's admonishment to NOT "put new wine in old wineskins." They have continued to proclaim the "old wineskins" and have forced each new generation to fit.
Aren't you in a very serious minority, Mystic? You, and those like you, seem to be a huge minority unless the windbags from your side are just louder and more visible.
This is the disingenuous game played by atheists to pretend their irrational and unsupportable premise of "No God" is the scientific one.
No - the only disingenuous game being played is you straw manning atheists positions and explaining them wrong - on a forum when you can not even explain or defend your own.
The atheist premise of all atheists I have ever read - met - or spoken to is not "no god" but that "god" is just another of the many possible hypotheses for our existence and is no more or less valid than any other hypothesis someone just plucks out of the air or their orifices.
The problem for people like you is not that we are going around spouting "No god". The problem for people like you is that there is nothing at all - whatsoever - that distinguishes your hypothesis from any of the other vast array of currently unsupported and baseless fantasy out there.
Our position is not "no god" - rather our position is that whatever hypothesis one puts forward to answer our big questions - you have to actually evidence and support those claims to elevate them out of the dregs of fantasy where all the other ideas dwell.
Shamefully you have never done this however and filling in gaps in our knowledge really is the only support you have for your positions on these matters - dismissing anyone who does not simply swallow your claims wholesale as being "Lovers of Ignorance" - lacking in education - or worse.
We are ignorant of many things. We do not want to be so we work to answer these questions. We are not afraid of our ignorance as you are. We do not hate it or fear admitting to it. We are open and honest about it - WHILE working on-towards ending it. While ignorance exists however the world will have no end of charlatans simply making stuff up and shoving it in the gaps - in order to profit themselves in one way or another - be it financially - socially - sexually - or just because they are starved for attention and their claims draw them some.
This is the disingenuous game played by atheists to pretend their irrational and unsupportable premise of "No God" is the scientific one. The reality is quite the opposite. As we learn " new things day after day, year after year". . . the scope of our KNOWLEDGE OF God increases. Our understanding of God expands every time we discover, learn and understand what science has discovered. It is the Luddite religious leaders who have stagnated our knowledge of God to the ignorance of our ancient ancestors and called it Faith. It is their sins (pride, hubris, arrogance, lust for power and greed) that have been the main stumbling blocks to understanding our God. They have repeatedly over the centuries refused to follow Christ's admonishment to NOT "put new wine in old wineskins." They have continued to proclaim the "old wineskins" and have forced each new generation to fit.
Aren't you the one who in another thread proclaim that peace between atheists and theists can only be achieved by understanding, respect and acceptance of anothers belief?
Yet here you go (again) denouncing the belief of others and claiming only you have the correct answers?
As the OP says the game being played by theists often (but not all of them) is to insert "god" as an explanation into any area where we have no current answer.
We can not really blame them for this. Evolution has fashioned us in a way to assume that any unknown is indicative of an intentional agent. After all those who assumed something unknown was benign chance risked being dead if it turned out they were wrong. Those that assumed intelligent agency with intentions towards them however survived when wrong.
As such when confronted with the unknown we ask what is it "for" what does it "want" and "who" did it and why. It is simply natural to us to assume intelligence, design, intent and more behind these things.
Just because it is natural to us does not make it true however. There simply is no evidence, argument, data or reasoning on offer from these people to substantiate their claims that any of the big unanswered questions have anything to do with god... nor that said god even exists at all. They simply assume it and quite often use areas of ignorance as if they are evidence for their assumptions. An approach that amounts to nothing more than saying "Because we can not explain it.... we can explain it" and of course that explanation always happens to be their personal choice of god.
"If your proof for God starts with "Science can't explain...", then God becomes simply a placeholder for your ignorance. This also implies that as we learn new things day after day, year after year, and the scope of our ignorance shrinks, God becomes smaller. If God is simply the gaps in our knowledge, we kill a piece of God every time we discover, learn, understand.
“If in fact the frontiers of knowledge are being pushed farther and farther back (and that is bound to be the case), then God is being pushed back with them, and is therefore continually in retreat.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Theologian.
Do you know what an antonyimc pair is? It is a pair of opposites. Both cannot exist at the same time. Using that, we have 2 choices....a creator exists, or one doesn't.
I can logically explain how God exists...for the fact that the universe simply did not come into existence on its own. Since there are ONLY 2 options -- a creator or not....and we disprove one, the only alternative is that there is.
But you did not "disprove one" you just declare it to be false. Saying something is false does not prove it false or make it false.
Also just declaring there are only 2 options does not make i so either. You are assuming it "came into existence" at all and was not "always" there. So there is a 3rd option. And just because I only think of 3 does not mean there IS only 3. That is human arrogance to assume that just because you can not think of any other answers that there is none.
This is the disingenuous game played by atheists to pretend their irrational and unsupportable premise of "No God" is the scientific one. The reality is quite the opposite. As we learn " new things day after day, year after year". . . the scope of our KNOWLEDGE OF God increases. Our understanding of God expands every time we discover, learn and understand what science has discovered. It is the Luddite religious leaders who have stagnated our knowledge of God to the ignorance of our ancient ancestors and called it Faith. It is their sins (pride, hubris, arrogance, lust for power and greed) that have been the main stumbling blocks to understanding our God. They have repeatedly over the centuries refused to follow Christ's admonishment to NOT "put new wine in old wineskins." They have continued to proclaim the "old wineskins" and have forced each new generation to fit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51
Aren't you the one who in another thread proclaim that peace between atheists and theists can only be achieved by understanding, respect and acceptance of anothers belief?
Yet here you go (again) denouncing the belief of others and claiming only you have the correct answers?
Seem hypocritical to you?
If I were doing as you say . . . it would be hypocritical. I cannot stop others from taking my witness about my views (opinions) as personal attacks on theirs. But . . . respect does not demand agreement . . . just tolerance. I have issues with both atheists and theists as this post reveals . . . but I respect their right to hold their beliefs. Polarized atheists ignore as not "on offer" or relevant all existing evidence and knowledge about reality including consciousness and the current intelligence and design that enables science to be possible. They focus on whether or not there is intelligence and design BEHIND the current existence of everything (the "chicken or egg" question) and ask for proof of God. Polarized theists ignore the current knowledge acquired through science over the intervening 2000+ years and maintain ignorant ancient beliefs and superstitions as a sign of their Faith in God. These descriptions reflect my opinion of the current status of the debate between the two most vocal and aggressive extremes. But I continue to respect their right to hold those beliefs. It is not mutual, however.
But I hazard to guess that YOUR idea of "god" is THE god we all need to acknowledge, right?
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