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You can't even see the point Sanspeur made. You, my dear Vizio, are indeed guilty of exactly what the whole thread is about.
You are claiming that because we don't know how the universe came to be then therefore someone made it.
That's exactly the god-of-the-gaps mistake. Why can't you see that?
Give me a viable alternative. You call it what you want...but that's how logic works. If there are only 2 possibilities and one is proven wrong....the other is by default correct. If you are unable to think logically about it, I'm sorry. Not much I can do.
03-20-2013, 03:17 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Astron1000 You can't even see the point Sanspeur made. You, my dear Vizio, are indeed guilty of exactly what the whole thread is about.
You are claiming that because we don't know how the universe came to be then therefore someone made it.
That's exactly the god-of-the-gaps mistake. Why can't you see that?
Quote:
Vizio Give me a viable alternative. You call it what you want...but that's how logic works. If there are only 2 possibilities and one is proven wrong....the other is by default correct. If you are unable to think logically about it, I'm sorry. Not much I can do.
Quote:
Vizio If you can't demonstrate how the universe exists, then we know the "no creator" option is false and the only logical conclusion is the only other one--that there was one.
No vizio, there is a difference between not knowing and not being able to know how the universe exist. You have done nothing to show that it can not be demonstrated. Besides, there are plenty of models that have more explanatory power than your 'God dun it' hypothesis. It is ironic that you ask atheists how the universe exists but fail to demonstrate how God dun it. Your creatio ex nihilo is illogical - so go ahead explain how God affected nothing in order to create something that is completly ontologically different than God since you are so fond of the Law of Cause and Effect.
You are an illogical nightmare and so are your beliefs!
No vizio, there is a difference between not knowing and not being able to know how the universe exist. You have done nothing to show that it can not be demonstrated. Besides, there are plenty of models that have more explanatory power than your 'God dun it' hypothesis. It is ironic that you ask atheists how the universe exists but fail to demonstrate how God dun it. Your creatio ex nihilo is illogical - so go ahead explain how God affected nothing in order to create something that is completly ontologically different than God since you are so fond of the Law of Cause and Effect.
You are an illogical nightmare and so are your beliefs!
Still waiting for that viable option. How did the universe come to exist without a cause? I know this is difficult...you guys aren't used to thinking logically.
We have an antonymic pair. There is either a creator, or there isn't. We know from the Law of Cause and Effect that something cannot exist without a cause. Therefore, your idea of no creator is not possible. The only alternative is that there is one.
Show me the evidence for a creator....
03-20-2013, 03:24 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Still waiting for that viable option. How did the universe come to exist without a cause? I know this is difficult...you guys aren't used to thinking logically.
Boy, you sure are ignorant! Who said the universe came into existent without a cause? Oh and by the way why don't you try answering some of the questions put to you instead of deflecting with strawmen.
You have got nothing!
03-20-2013, 03:30 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
We can just use Vizio's logic against him:
Quote:
Vizio If you can't demonstrate how the universe exists, then we know the "no creator" option is false and the only logical conclusion is the only other one--that there was one.
If you can't demonstrate how God made the universe exists, then we know the "creator" option is false and the only logical conclusion is the only other one--that there was none.
Still waiting for that viable option. How did the universe come to exist without a cause? I know this is difficult...you guys aren't used to thinking logically.
We do not YET know what caused the universe to exist. There are many other things that we do not know as well....Saying that we do not know is not a negative thing, and it is at least honest, unlike your claims.... That is the only logical answer...The entire premise of a creator god is NOT logical....You really are doing a fine job of showcasing the OP here...Thank you.
Give me a viable alternative. You call it what you want...but that's how logic works. If there are only 2 possibilities and one is proven wrong....the other is by default correct. If you are unable to think logically about it, I'm sorry. Not much I can do.
That's not valid logic, Vizio, and I'm sorry you can't see that. This is what you said:
" There is either a creator, or there isn't. We know from the Law of Cause and Effect that something cannot exist without a cause. Therefore, your idea of no creator is not possible. The only alternative is that there is one."
What's wrong with that? Well...
1) You state a proposition: There is either a creator or there isn't. This is either true or false.
2) You state a second proposition: Something can't exist without a cause. This is also either true or false. Let's assume it is true.
3) You then falsely assign "creator" as being the cause, without any proof. When in fact we can just as easily assign "Rainbow Unicorn" as the cause.
This is called Non causa pro causa, or a false cause fallacy.
By your errant logic:
"Either there is a Rainbow Unicorn or there isn't.We know from the Law of Cause and Effect that something cannot exist without a cause. Therefore, your idea of no Rainbow Unicorn is not possible. The only alternative is that there is one."
03-20-2013, 03:49 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
Quote:
We know from the Law of Cause and Effect that something cannot exist without a cause.
So then, what caused God?
I am still waiting for vizio to undo this mess, but he seems to be gathering more straw for his strawmen.
The weird thing about Vizio's "argument" is that even if we accept that something created the universe, it does not follow that the supposed "creator" is some human-like guy.
The "creator" can just as easily be natural processes. Or it can be a Rainbow Unicorn. Although there is much more evidence for the former.
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Your creatio ex nihilo is illogical - so go ahead explain how God affected nothing in order to create something that is completly ontologically different than God since you are so fond of the Law of Cause and Effect. 
