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What does that have to do with anything? The verses are pretty clear to me, it's about a man 'laying' with another man and that is considered an abomination.
Except abomination is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word, and a man can't lay with another man like he would a woman. Makes no sense.
The verse doesn't just say, "Man shall not have sex with man". It specifically applies only to how one does it with women. But a man can't have sex with a man like a woman, because men don't have vaginas!
You are aware this verse doesn't actually make much sense in Hebrew, let alone English right? It's very nonsensical from a 21st Century viewpoint.
Because given all the evidence those verses are most likely referring to male shrine prostitutes worshipping pagan fertility gods. Idolatory was a common theme amongst anything that was labeled to'ebah. The Hebrew word translated as 'abomination' didntt mean the same thing in those times as we mean by' 'abomination' in the 21st century. See what the Jews have to say about their own language: ABOMINATION - JewishEncyclopedia.com
So what the heck does that verse have to do with gay or lesbian people?
Why is it that EVERYONE who attacks gays with Leviticus 18, refuses to actually look at verse 21, before quoting 22?
Do they not think it strange for the entire chapter to be discussing forbidden incestuous relationships, and then make a completely abrupt nonsensical switch to child sacrifice in the temples of Molech just before discussing verse 22? What does child sacrifice have to do with 2 gay men having sex in the 21st Century?
Do they not realize there were no verse or page numbers when that was written, and Verse 21 is an entirely separate contextual shift away from the rest of the chapter, and specifically outlines cultural taboos related to Caananite pagan rituals?
Under Jewish law it is impossible to condemn two gay men in a monogamous relationship. Jewish law had stricter burden of proof requirements than even we do. It required multiple witnesses who can outline every little detail exactly the same as every other witness. It was so hard to prove, no one has ever been charged under Jewish law. The only same-sex activity that could even have multiple witnesses and meet the Jewish burden of proof is public pagan prostitution in the temples.
I've yet to see anyone who cherry picks that verse to use against gay men, explain why this verse didn't just say "And do not lie with another male" OR explain why it follows verses about giving over offspring to Molech.
Me either. I've asked that question numerous times. Why the clause, "As with woman" (or more literally from Hebrew "lie the lyings woman")?
Not a single person has given a logical explanation to that clause being there. Some scholars contend it refers to either the place (a woman's bed) or her position in society (she was property - thus a man acting like chattel would have been taboo).
It certainly has a point for being there, which anti-gays refuse to acknowledge.
Why is it that EVERYONE who attacks gays with Leviticus 18, refuses to actually look at verse 21, before quoting 22?
Do they not think it strange for the entire chapter to be discussing forbidden incestuous relationships, and then make a completely abrupt nonsensical switch to child sacrifice in the temples of Molech just before discussing verse 22? What does child sacrifice have to do with 2 gay men having sex in the 21st Century?
Do they not realize there were no verse or page numbers when that was written, and Verse 21 is an entirely separate contextual shift away from the rest of the chapter, and specifically outlines cultural taboos related to Caananite pagan rituals?
Under Jewish law it is impossible to condemn two gay men in a monogamous relationship. Jewish law had stricter burden of proof requirements than even we do. It required multiple witnesses who can outline every little detail exactly the same as every other witness. It was so hard to prove, no one has ever been charged under Jewish law. The only same-sex activity that could even have multiple witnesses and meet the Jewish burden of proof is public pagan prostitution in the temples.
Why is this so hard for people to grasp?
Maybe because he specifically called it an "abomination".
You'd be surprised at the number of christians who don't think that getting remarried is a sin (in most cases). It is because it is too hard for them to imagine that their god would not want them to be happy, etc. Well, how do you think gays feel? They protest against gays getting married while getting divorced and remarried at every turn.
Apparently any worthless, abused, ridiculous marriage is acceptable so long as it's not 2 men or 2 women.
Drunken vegas marriages are legal, hugh hefners marriages are legal, kim kardashians 72 day marriage was legal, Britney Spears' 55 hour marriage was legal, Larry King had 8 divorces. Rush Limbaugh is on his 4th marriage.
Conservative Christians are so obscenely hypocritical.
Maybe because he specifically called it an "abomination".
He called wearing cotton and polyester or long hair in the temple an abomination too. Abomination is a mistranslation. The original Hebrew word the KJV translated from does not have the same connotation. Toevah was a cultural taboo. Anything from mixed, colored fabrics, to planting 2 crops in the same field, to wearing glasses at the tabernacle were all viewed as "Toevah".
By your logic, the shirt you're wearing right now is probably an abomination to God.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
Except abomination is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word, and a man can't lay with another man like he would a woman. Makes no sense.
The verse doesn't just say, "Man shall not have sex with man". It specifically applies only to how one does it with women. But a man can't have sex with a man like a woman, because men don't have vaginas!
You are aware this verse doesn't actually make much sense in Hebrew, let alone English right? It's very nonsensical from a 21st Century viewpoint.
Of course not exactly, we're talking anal sex. And in a way they can, actually. A man can have anal sex with both a man and a woman.
Location: The western periphery of Terra Australis
24,544 posts, read 56,107,174 times
Reputation: 11862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiyero
Me either. I've asked that question numerous times. Why the clause, "As with woman" (or more literally from Hebrew "lie the lyings woman")?
Not a single person has given a logical explanation to that clause being there. Some scholars contend it refers to either the place (a woman's bed) or her position in society (she was property - thus a man acting like chattel would have been taboo).
It certainly has a point for being there, which anti-gays refuse to acknowledge.
The meaning is as plain as day. I'm not saying I even think all of the OT was inspired, but that's what it says.
You'd be surprised at the number of christians who don't think that getting remarried is a sin (in most cases). It is because it is too hard for them to imagine that their god would not want them to be happy, etc. Well, how do you think gays feel? They protest against gays getting married while getting divorced and remarried at every turn.
Divorce and remarriage (with limited exceptions) isn't taboo in Jewish law. I don't really see how this ties into my comment.
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