God and gays (divorce, punishment, Jews, Christians)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
18:21 'You shall not give any of your offspring to offer them to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God. **
Especially when it is never mentioned again like that outside of Leviticus, but there are about half a dozen verses about not giving over sons and daughters to be shrine or cult prostitutes?
eg Deut 23:17: "None of the daughters of Israel shall be a cult prostitute,nor shall any of the sons of Israel be a cult 6945 prostitute.
(Strong's Number H6945 matches the Hebrew קָדֵשׁ (qadesh), which occurs 23 times in 9 verses in the Hebrew concordance)
Read the first few verses of Leviticus 20 and see all the references about not giving offspring over to Molech. Then guess what? Yes the other Leviticus verse (20:13) used against gay men follows those verses just like in Lev 18:22
** Some translations say 'pass through the fire' of Molech. But this is not in the original Hebrew. Molech was a Canaanite god. Look up references to Molech in the OT to see the connection to shrine prostitutes Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for NASB.
To me, it's so obvious that Lev 18:22 and 20:13 are references to male shrine prostitutes when you follow simple honest Biblical hermeneutics. Sadly, many people are just fed those 2 verses out of context to regurgitate against gay people and never even bother to look into it any further.
It's not what I said, its what the Bible says. I wish it were different because its so culturally unacceptable today to believe anal sex between men is sinful, but I cannot reconcile it with my Christian faith.
It's impossible to have a discussion about this without your side resorting to sarcasm and stereotypes. Are you a Christian? If not, why does it matter to you what the Bible says on this issue?
It's impossible to have a discussion about this with people who just cherry-pick translated verses out of context with no understanding of the culture or the languages in which the texts were written.
I have done that. I've tried to believe that its really talking about temple prostitution but cannot, because its not there. The only theologians who teach that are those with an agenda to justify homosexuality. No matter how much liberals try to re-interpret scripture to fit with modern cultural norms doesn't make you any more correct.
Jesus was against his culture and they crucified him for it. The same will it be for true Christians in America.
And I'm not answering any of your other straw man questions.
Actually the only theologians who DON'T teach about temple prostitution (or rape) with the handful of verses that are typically used against gay people have an agenda against gay people. 'Liberals' don't need to re-interpret scripture to fit with modern cultural norms - that's what conservatives have been doing. A lot of conservatives tend to cherry-pick and re-interpret scripture to condemn the particular group they want to condemn/oppress at the time: Jews, women, blacks, gays etc.
For example the first time the word 'homosexuals' was used in an English version of the Bible was in 1946 in a conservative translation. That was certainly conservatives re-interpreting 1 Cor 6-9 because the original Greek word 'arsenokoites' can not honestly be translated as 'homosexuals'. Prior to that, 1 Cor 6-9 was used to condemn masturbators for centuries! (Masturbation was a big no-no for conservatives for a long time - don't hear much about it now though do we?)
Conservatives interpreted scripture to justify slavery for centuries. Then when slavery was made illegal, they started re-interpreting scripture so that the slaves mentioned in the Bible were a kind of nice ....servant or bondsperson, not really slaves.
I would say that most 'liberals' tend to read scripture in the context of the cultural norms the texts were originally written in.
Of course, you will disagree with me and that's okay. But looking at your posts on this topic I have never seen any evidence that you have done any honest research on it. Such a shame really - given your history.
St Augustine (354–430 C.E.) makes it clear that the women Paul referred to in Romans 1 were having anal sex with the men.
"But if one has relations even with one’s wife in a part of the body which was not made for begetting children, such relations are against nature and indecent. In fact, the same apostle earlier said the same thing about the women, For their women exchanged natural relations for those which are against nature (Rom 1:26).
Augustine, Marriage and Desire 20.35 (trans. Roland Teske; ed. John E Rotelle; Answer to the Pelagians, II; New York: New City Press, 1990), 75-76.
If you study the culture of that time you'd understand that gender roles and sex back then were not seen the same way we see them in the 21st century. Anything other than being submissive was unnatural for women. Anything other than being dominant was unnatural for men. Even the Greek word translated in english as 'unnatural' doesn't mean the same thing as we mean by 'unnatura'l in the 21st century.
Some people cherry-pick these 2 verses about idolatrous worhip of pagan gods out of their original context to condemn 21st century gay and lesbian people, when obviously the people were not even homosexual. The whole focus of the letter is not about sex (or sexual orientation) anyway. It's about people who turned away from God and reverted to their old pagan gods.
It still amazes me that people will take Jewish law (which was ment to be followed by Jews), ignore the context that it was written in, and then tell everyone that they have to follow it.
It still amazes me that people will take Jewish law (which was ment to be followed by Jews), ignore the context that it was written in, and then tell everyone that they have to follow it.
It still amazes me that people will take Jewish law (which was ment to be followed by Jews), ignore the context that it was written in, and then tell everyone that they have to follow it.
You mean tell everyone ELSE they have to follow it? Not themselves. Especially if it's inconvenient?
You mean tell everyone ELSE they have to follow it? Not themselves. Especially if it's inconvenient?
To be fair, most Christians do think that the ones that still apply (still not sure how that one gets worked out, and I grew up Baptist), apply to everyone equally.
Even if they don't follow their religion.
It just boggles me. I'm Jewish. And I'm fairly conservative in my religion.
I also wholeheartedly support same-sex marriage.
Why should anyone outside of my religion be forced to live by its laws?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No really..
(Masturbation was a big no-no for conservatives for a long time - don't hear much about it now though do we?)
