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The cross is a pagan symbol. It was used by pagan religions a long time before Christianity took it over. So what do you think about worshipping a pagan symbol in your religion?
It is not an object of worship, merely a memorial. Intent of the heart is what has the value. It is only a symbol as with other symbols of different faiths or national identity's. Symbols of what you are loyal to. Nothing more.
Are we justified in upholding the constitution?
Are we crybabies for understanding the constitution?
I always find this stuff hilarious. If someone tried to enact Jim Crow today, they would be seen as insane. But if a majority thinks gay people are second class citizens, that is totally ok? Why, because we're apprently a theocracy.
I honestly don't care, either, but it's the principle that matters. I highly doubt anyone would let the symbols of other religions be erected as well.
We are not a theocracy. That was proved to fail in O.T. times because of the failing of man in not wanting that common bond. The federal government of the US is not to establish or forbid the free exercise of religion. The bottom line is, it has no authority at all in this issue.
I don't think that the cross will be the only symbol at the Trade Center site memorial. It belongs to all the people now and should reflect all who lost their lives as people minding their own business and taking the ultimate insult that was intended for us all not just their religion or none. I think no symbols there would be just fine with me, But their loved ones have a voice bigger than mine and I will respect that.
Even if the prevailing majority in government of times past set up symbols of there faith, it is not establishing a religion but merely symbols of their faith and should remain as real History or should we deny how this country developed. Only the individual establishes there own faith in their own hearts by what they believe and do.
Civil and criminal law should prevail at all times.
Personally I could care less if "In God We Trust" is on the money or if the ten commandments are inscribed on the wall of the any government building. But no need to erase our history now. True religion or no religion is of the heart and adherence to it, not in symbols or the written letter.
First, the site you linked to is slanted. The first line in the story is, "Atheists never met a cross they didn't want to start a fuss over."
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Last edited by Miss Blue; 12-03-2011 at 10:01 AM..
Reason: off topic/
First, the site you linked to is slanted. The first line in the story is, "Atheists never met a cross they didn't want to start a fuss over."
Second, I'd expect such bias coming from you, as you have a history of trying to pick fights here, and trying to proselytize both here and on the Relationships sub-forum.
Third, just because you've gotten away with it for several pages on other threads, that doesn't mean such behavior will continue to be indulged on this one.
I enjoy a good dialogue of personal differences on various subjects , and im happy my CityData membership allows me that freedom . And P.S. : I didnt write the article or give it its Title.
It's not moral to worship idols. Nevertheless who or which is the moral side is often a mystery? I get it now about the justice systems well-respected by Obama's approach.
Seems like this issue has reached the mainstream media as i just heard it talked about on a daily syndicated radio program , its online , and in the newspapers . I heard on the program that Atheists are complaining because 'its making them sick as they walk by the cross' , they find it offensive , and it shouldnt be a public display at a Memorial .
How do Atheists feel when they see Arlington National Cemetary on TV with rows of white crosses as far as the eye can see ? Does it make them feel nauseated ?!
Are these Atheists justified , or, it is yet another case of not wanting to be reminded what the cross represents ... what do you think ? No vitrol intended with this post...I just find it absurd what militant Atheists will come up with.
This is a total crock.
How could anyone be walking by the steel beam cross? It was taken from outside St. Peter's Church and lowered by crane 70 feet underground below the Memorial into the area where the Museum is being contructed, along with some emergency vehicles recovered from the debris. That was months ago, since they had to close up the hole in the plaza to get the Memorial opened for the tenth anniversary. It was never at the Memorial and never planned to be part of the Memorial.
Further, even if were at the Memorial, no one would be just "walking by it". You need a pass to get on to the Memorial, which is in the middle of an enormous, active construction site. Right there this tells me that whoever is trying to push this story isn't even familiar with the layout of the new WTC.
Don't get what you mean about "reaching the mainstream media". This controversy is old and died out a long time ago as far as the media is concerned. It's hardly breaking news.
Are we justified in upholding the constitution?
Are we crybabies for understanding the constitution?
I always find this stuff hilarious. If someone tried to enact Jim Crow today, they would be seen as insane. But if a majority thinks gay people are second class citizens, that is totally ok? Why, because we're apprently a theocracy.
I honestly don't care, either, but it's the principle that matters. I highly doubt anyone would let the symbols of other religions be erected as well.
You know I was prepared to say how people just need to get a life and quit complaining about stupid meaningless stuff, but you make a good point. If we put the cross there, how would we feel putting the synmbol of.....say..... islam there? Why shouldn't we? My guess is it would spark outrage. As far as that goes, the cross doesn't bother me and it would be a shame to have it taken down. Everyone needs to get over their politico ideology and quit trying to use ground zero to make a statement. It's only tarnishing the memory of the ones who died on that day and how dare anyone try and use it to make4 a statement.. That cross doesn't really represent Christianity, it represents whatever4 we percieve it to represent.
If your muslim, it represents that, if your jewish, it represents that, if your atheist, it can represent that.
Exactly. The victims were a cross-section: Christians, but also agnostics, atheists, Jews, Buddhists, etc. Representing them all with a cross is a travesty.
Who said this so-called cross was representing anyone? It has nothing to do with the victims of the attacks. It's about the living who worked on that pile for nine months. It will be in the museum as part of the story of the recovery and cleanup. That's what museums do--tell the story of something that happened. Yes, it meant something religious to the construction workers who believed that coming across two beams in a symmetrical cross shape meant something. It meant nothing to others more than two steel beams of a destroyed building. Someone else created some religious art by cutting a piece of the steel into a Star of David. That's part of the story and will be in the museum, too. They are artifacts, not part of some shrine.
You know I was prepared to say how people just need to get a life and quit complaining about stupid meaningless stuff, but you make a good point. If we put the cross there, how would we feel putting the synmbol of.....say..... islam there? Why shouldn't we? My guess is it would spark outrage. As far as that goes, the cross doesn't bother me and it would be a shame to have it taken down. Everyone needs to get over their politico ideology and quit trying to use ground zero to make a statement. It's only tarnishing the memory of the ones who died on that day and how dare anyone try and use it to make4 a statement.. That cross doesn't really represent Christianity, it represents whatever4 we percieve it to represent.
If your muslim, it represents that, if your jewish, it represents that, if your atheist, it can represent that.
As already stated, there is nothing to "take down". The cross will not even be available for public viewing until the museum is completed, and that's looking like 2013 right now.
But I did laugh a little at your last sentence. The cross will never represent their religion to Jews and Muslims. They have a history of people wearing crosses sewn on their battlefield armor coming at them with lances and swords.
The cross is a pagan symbol. It was used by pagan religions a long time before Christianity took it over. So what do you think about worshipping a pagan symbol in your religion?
It is nothing but the symbol of the bronze age execution technology. Why not put up a hangman's noose, or a headsman's axe, or a guillotine, or electric chair to symbolize god? The purpose is the same, just the level of technology differs.
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