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Welcome to real estate. It is a fine field, and you can learn a lot if you apply yourself in the right manner.
To market and sell a property as an agent, I put a market price on a property.
Zillow calculated a very low value on the same property, ostensibly derived from statistics, and inaccurate measurements, nearly 10% below market value, held it for months, and then reverted to it after a brief, inexplicable volatile spike and is still showing the wrong SF.
I looked at the Z trend line for the property. It is completely absurd. The moment in time when they picked a number out of the hat that worked was a spike in their timeline over a few weeks. No rime. No reason. No sense. That is the issue with trusting a monkey and keyboard pap advertising company over someone who actually studies the local market.
There is no reason to believe that the current value is $380,000. If anything, since closing at the end of July, the value is flat to up a few thousand bucks and $420,000 would be a creditable market price.
I live here, study the market, and know that to be true. Where is Z? I cannot see them anywhere and they need to measure the house.
Let me guess: Your system, which was off by $10,000 is better than a system that was off by $3,000.
Got it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjrcm
In the Phoenix metro area, only 24.3% of zestimates are within 5%. This is for 1.5M homes with zestimates. Median error is 11%.
Then, in this case, I would not assume the Zestimates for that area are not very reliable. I would use it mainly for trending of the general market, more than anything else. Or, even use it to determine how to make the adjustments for lot size, floor space, etc from other comps.
Z Fanboi Extreme stuff. fer sherr. How many shares of Z do you hold?
Does stock ownership matter? Are you implying that having a financial interest in something could perhaps bias ones perspective?
Quote:
Of course I use the standard contracts as applicable. They are tried and true, provided by attorneys who hammer them out to meet NC Real Estate Commission and Bar Association requirement.
Why would I pretend I could write a contract when one that is perfectly usable for most transactions is readily available to me?
What exact REQUIREMENT are you referring to?
Just to clarify one small, but very important detail...
The "standard" contract that you are referencing is drafted by the NC ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS (NCAR). Like all other state RE Associations, THE NCAR is a private, non governmental, trade association that retains their own attorneys to draft these "standard" contracts to benefit their members (Realtors).
The NCAR should not be confused with the NC Real Estate COMMISSION, which is a governmental agency tasked with protecting the NC public. The NC Real Estate COMMISSION is not involved with drafting the NC "standard" contract.
Comparing a RE Asssociation to a state RE Commission is like comparing the NRA to ATF.
It is interesting how RE agents try to add credibility to their "standard" contracts by imply that these contracts are developed by state RE Commissions and Bar Associations.
...Then, in this case, I would not assume the Zestimates for that area are not very reliable. I would use it mainly for trending of the general market, more than anything else. Or, even use it to determine how to make the adjustments for lot size, floor space, etc from other comps.
Others may, but I have more reliable sources of local trend data and comps.
...It is interesting how RE agents try to add credibility to their "standard" contracts by imply that these contracts are developed by state RE Commissions and Bar Associations.
The poster you commented on made no such claim or implication. RE commissions and Bar Associations set state requirements and legal standards that any RE contract must adhere to, such as insuring proper disclosures are made as one example, whether drafted by an RE association attorneys or not.
Does stock ownership matter? Are you implying that having a financial interest in something could perhaps bias ones perspective?
What exact REQUIREMENT are you referring to?
Just to clarify one small, but very important detail...
The "standard" contract that you are referencing is drafted by the NC ASSOCIATION OF REALTORS (NCAR). Like all other state RE Associations, THE NCAR is a private, non governmental, trade association that retains their own attorneys to draft these "standard" contracts to benefit their members (Realtors).
The NCAR should not be confused with the NC Real Estate COMMISSION, which is a governmental agency tasked with protecting the NC public. The NC Real Estate COMMISSION is not involved with drafting the NC "standard" contract.
Comparing a RE Asssociation to a state RE Commission is like comparing the NRA to ATF.
It is interesting how RE agents try to add credibility to their "standard" contracts by imply that these contracts are developed by state RE Commissions and Bar Associations.
As usual, you are clearly and grievously mistaken in your post.
NCAR attorneys do not operate in a vacuum.
As clearly noted at the bottom, the NCAR Offer to Purchase and Contract is formulated jointly by and approved by the NC Bar Association and NCAR attorneys.
This involves many hours of meetings between the NCAR Forms Committee members and the NC Bar Association people to come to agreement.
Then it is vetted by the NC Real Estate Commission and tweaked as required. The Commission is heavily involved in final approval.
The "requirement" is that the Real Estate Commission vet the contract, since their job is to protect consumers.
The NC Real Estate Commission is greatly involved, and requires inclusion of certain terms in many of the documents prepared by NCAR. Clarification of compensation in Buyers Agency Agreements was one significant revision the Commission promoted a few years ago.
ETA:
It took me a few minutes to find this link from the NC Bar Association site: N.C. Offer to Purchase and Contract Receives Significant Revisions
It is nearly two years old, but highlights the fact that the Bar Association and NCAR worked together on forms.
Miriam Baer is cited. Miriam Baer is Executive Director of the NC Real Estate Commission, an attorney and former legal department head, and is noted as having served on the Joint Forms Task Force.
Last edited by MikeJaquish; 01-06-2013 at 06:46 AM..
Let me guess: Your system, which was off by $10,000 is better than a system that was off by $3,000.
Got it.
Then, in this case, I would not assume the Zestimates for that area are not very reliable. I would use it mainly for trending of the general market, more than anything else. Or, even use it to determine how to make the adjustments for lot size, floor space, etc from other comps.
Revised your quote, and glad to help. "Let me guess: Your system, where you actually study the local market, care about accuracy, make adjustments as needed, and strive for accuracy, is better than a system that was off by $30,000 and is still off by $30,000 or more, and still has the square footage off by 15%."
Yep. That's right. Now you got it.
I always viewed the "make me move" as just that. I really really don't want to move, to get me to move, you're going to have to make me an offer thats well above market value. Give me a price I can't refuse. That sorta thing.
Yes.
At one point (peak of market in Denver) my house was "worth" $800K. I set the Make-Me-Move to $1.6M. LOL.
Revised your quote, and glad to help. "Let me guess: Your system, where you actually study the local market, care about accuracy, make adjustments as needed, and strive for accuracy, is better than a system that was off by $30,000 and is still off by $30,000 or more, and still has the square footage off by 15%."
Yep. That's right. Now you got it.
You didn't make any adjustments. You set one price, which was off by $10,000. Zillow's point-in-time valuation on the date of sale was only off by $3,000.
Even with all that bad data, Zillow STILL did better than you.
You didn't make any adjustments. You set one price, which was off by $10,000. Zillow's point-in-time valuation on the date of sale was only off by $3,000.
Even with all that bad data, Zillow STILL did better than you.
Actually, anyone with any real estate experience knows that the seller sets the price.
Additionally, anyone with any real estate experience knows that the Seller and I put up a price.
Z put up a value. $380,000 and it is wrong today, will be wrong tomorrow, and hasn't been right at any time they put it up.
"Value" and "Price" are two decidedly different subjects. I pointed out earlier that Z valued and I priced. I can make that point again, but after a while it gets remedial.
As usual, you are clearly and grievously mistaken in your post.
What “grievous” mistake, did I make in my last post? Seems to be a common reply to my posts when you don't like what I say. I simply, and correctly, pointed out the difference b/t RE Commissions and the RE Associations. We have had various discussions on CD regarding the NC contracts, and I believe you are the one who has been incorrect in the past (happy to reference on request)
I just thought it was interesting how you worded your support of “standard contracts”. You mentioned that these “standard contracts” are “provided” by “attorneys” who hammer them out to meet the RE Commission and Bar Association requirements. You never once mentioned the NCAR is a major player in drafting the contract. Other RE agents on this post have also tried to associate their contracts with their State’s RE Commission and minimize the role of RE Associations in drafting the contracts.
Quote:
NCAR attorneys do not operate in a vacuum.
Obviously, contracts are drafted within the confines of the “law” and I never said they were not. That does not mean that they are evenly balanced b/t the public and RE industry.
Quote:
As clearly noted at the bottom, the NCAR Offer to Purchase and Contract is formulated jointly by and approved by the NC Bar Association and NCAR attorneys.
I was referring to all NC RE Contracts, not just the to the sales contract (OTP). You are correct, the NC OTP is drafted jointly by the NCAR and the NC Bar Association. Both “Associations” are private, non governmental that “lobby” for their own private interest. Since they are both involved, and profit, from RE transactions, it is not surprising that they jointly formulate the NC OTP contract.
It is interesting to note that other NC RE contracts (Listing Agency) do not have the NC Bar Association logo on the form (at least the forms I have seen). Perhaps the NC Bar Association is not involved with developing these contracts?
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Exactly
