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If you can't see it.. Well, as some may know (?) I live in an HOA mostly populated by old people. Over the past month, there isna camera somewhere that takes a picture of the car, clearly at street level. Based on the signage and background I know where I SHOULD see this camera.. yet, I do not see it. Seriously questioning the legality of this thing because how on earth can it know your speed when you don't see ANY sensors or calibration. Distance, sensors, cameras, nothing.
It doesn't appear to be on the utility box.
Haven't seen it in a tree or on a sign, and it was ground level photo anyways..
So. A couple things:
1. These aren't NJ tickets. State constitution prohibits video speed devices. These are set up as violations of the community "rules" which it says are the "speed." First one was a warning; second and subsequent carries fine. Under HOA rules but not NJ Statute. Furthering the idea that inside an HOA is privatized road, another thing that is not supposed to exist in NJ.. (they have it both ways, if trespassing it is private property. If getting a ticket, there is no such thing as private property, even though it is literally a gated community. Okay...)
2. How on earth is it measuring speed?
3. These are some really hi-res camera, in color, sharper than pictures from a toll booth. Where is it?
Maybe other people live in my HOA or one like it, but. Gotta hear everyone's take on this....
Have you talked to any of the Board Members on the HOA?
I don't think that they can just arbitrarily put this in place. This means that there should have been some opportunity for discussion from the Homeowners before the board voted on it. If there was no homeowner input and they didn't give you the opportunity, it may not even be valid under HOA rules.
I imagine it was some sort of radar(X-Band, K-Band, Ka-Band, LIDAR). You may have a valid claim to inspect the device and request its records on the calibration if you ever were forced to pay a fine. It would be absolutely infuriating if they "said" you were going 36MPH when in fact it was calibrated wrong and you were only going 25MPH.
If they can't prove that at the time they issued you your "ticket," it was calibrated correctly, you may have it tossed out. This however would probably be in CIVIL Court since it is an HOA issue. That also may make the board have second thoughts if people start to push back.
I'm admittedly unfamiliar with this development, and very anti-HOA. in the end, maybe he has to pay. I believe that the likelihood this fact pattern establishes a valid fine is very, very low.
Even the government (where applicable) has to use visible cameras for fining purposes. A camera that very likely is inside of a private residence with no supporting documentation/reviewable evidence does not pass the smell test.
I could agree to that but as previously stated the OP history is that of not real situations.
From what I am told there are no limits to what an HOA can do as long as it's covered under the bylaws. I'm pretty sure they can even use the death penalty as long as it's documented properly. Anyone who lives in an HOA if they have a choice is a fool!
Does your neighborhood have a Facebook or Nextdoor page? Most do nowadays. If so that's where you should be doing your griping and where you may get some real answers.
Does your neighborhood have a Facebook or Nextdoor page? Most do nowadays. If so that's where you should be doing your griping and where you may get some real answers.
From what I am told there are no limits to what an HOA can do as long as it's covered under the bylaws. I'm pretty sure they can even use the death penalty as long as it's documented properly. Anyone who lives in an HOA if they have a choice is a fool!
Does your neighborhood have a Facebook or Nextdoor page? Most do nowadays. If so that's where you should be doing your griping and where you may get some real answers.
There’s no chance in hell that I would pay this.
A camera in someone’s house issuing fines? Lol ok.
Tell them to get bent. Tell THEM to take YOU to court. See how that goes for them.
Anyway… this is why HOAs are off the table for me, for the rest of my life. I rose to president of my last one specifically to ensure that no one else could do it. Left that place with massive savings and great contracts. In only two years it’s nothing but complaints from my friends still living there.
Talking about this now with the person I live with. Two others that live (here) have got the same.
Sure, I've gotten the "SO WHAT! DON'T SPEED!" from at least one person... but something just doesn't seem right here.
You're saying to take this to the HOA?
Letter does start off with "It has been reported" so... they are saying LVA Handbook of Rules and Regulations has been violated.
Quote:
A camera in someone's house issuing fines
Some sort of speed camera bought off Amazon with some kind of digital stamp on high-res photos.. by some Karen giving it to the HOA so it has been "Reported" to mail a "violation" "of the rules." They can put any speed they want on that stamp, I bet.. no radar or lidar etc. And it takes photos??!! - You're saying this can't happen? (This would explain why I can't find the camera.)
There sure isn't anything that looks like this....
@blisterpeanuts Gave up Social Media so I mostly came here for G1 and all my wonderful friends to tell me how stupid I am. Actually that's not it at all but.. levity.
Where are you getting the idea that there are not supposed to be private roads in NJ? There are plenty.
Well, having been stopped by the police enough times and talked to a lawyer, they really do have it every which way. Let me explain.
So, as per lawyers specifically "Kenneth Vercammen" (the best Municipal court attorney in New Jersey,) if the road is accessible from the street (like in this case, private community off the highway. Even though there is a gate...) then it isn't a "private road." Asked about that for a ticket once. "Not a defense." (Meaning, if the police stop you in here, and write you an ACTUAL ticket, it not a defense that you were on private property since it "doesn't exist" because you got onto/into it from a public road.)
Yet, if they want to "trespass" you (NJ I think calls it either a Petty Disorderly Persons Offense or a Disorderly Person's Offense. Same thing...) then.. all of a sudden.. private property.
And now for the coup de gras.. apparently LVA has it that the streets and stuff in the village are NOT "suggestions," Lakewood police are supposed to enforce it like any other stop sign or etc; BUT, this one doesn't pass the Sniff test and is therefore a letter mailed about violation of "the rules." I'm going with camera in someone's window they can type a speed into. There is NO speed measuring ability of that thing, the angle is off, and other people gave been getting the same letter. But its not a ticket.
Well, having been stopped by the police enough times and talked to a lawyer, they really do have it every which way. Let me explain.
So, as per lawyers specifically "Kenneth Vercammen" (the best Municipal court attorney in New Jersey,) if the road is accessible from the street (like in this case, private community off the highway. Even though there is a gate...) then it isn't a "private road." Asked about that for a ticket once. "Not a defense." (Meaning, if the police stop you in here, and write you an ACTUAL ticket, it not a defense that you were on private property since it "doesn't exist" because you got onto/into it from a public road.)
Yet, if they want to "trespass" you (NJ I think calls it either a Petty Disorderly Persons Offense or a Disorderly Person's Offense. Same thing...) then.. all of a sudden.. private property.
And now for the coup de gras.. apparently LVA has it that the streets and stuff in the village are NOT "suggestions," Lakewood police are supposed to enforce it like any other stop sign or etc; BUT, this one doesn't pass the Sniff test and is therefore a letter mailed about violation of "the rules." I'm going with camera in someone's window they can type a speed into. There is NO speed measuring ability of that thing, the angle is off, and other people gave been getting the same letter. But its not a ticket.
By your definition of a private road, means there are zero private roads in NJ, because they all have access to public roads? Seriously doubt that's true.
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