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This entire issue stems from bad parenting. People that tend to complain because "it's not fair" usually were either spoiled, or their parents were too weak to say no when these poeple would have their temper tantrums. Because of this they grew up thinking that the rest of the world should accomodate them no matter what it is that they want.
It is just as rediculous as spending time and money discussing gay marriages.
Whatever happened to the general understanding that life is not always fair and that you just need to shut up and deal with it?
People that are complaining about smoking in bars and resturants have not spent enough time actually thinking about the issue. They heard that it was bad so they started to complain.
If you go into a resturant that makes most of it's money from food sales, odds are that if they have a smoking section, and you are a non smoker, that you have never even smelled smoke in that place. If you are going into a bar, tough crap.
People go to bars to socialize, drink, and smoke. If you don't like that, don't go to a bar, or find a bar that has chosen to be a non-smoking bar and deal with it. Smokers deal with non-smoking places day in and day out, and you never see smokers complaining. I do not go swimming if I do not want to get wet. It is a simple solution.
Basically it all boils down to one simple solution. Force the American public to grow the hell up and stop this constant complaining about things not being fair.
Parents, stop spoiling or giving into your children constantly or they grow up to **** off the rest of the world.
Personally, I left Minnesota because I am very allergic to cigarette smoke -- an hour of smoke means a month or two of sinus infections, ear infections, and other health problems. It was virtually impossible to avoid -- very few places went non-smoking on their own. But I did have many business owners tell me "we'd love to see everywhere go non-smoking, then it would not hurt us."
We'll see what happens -- I know in my case, my family left the state over this issue and now reside in smoke-free California. Did it cost a lot -- and I mean a lot -- of money? Yes! Was it worth it? Without a doubt! In Minnesota, I was unable to go out and meet people, go to restaurants, even go to my company's Christmas party. Here, I have more social life than I know what to do with!
For the sake of people in my case, I believe smoking bans to be one of the absolute essential issues of the day, and I support them wholeheartedly.
Also.. the comment about air quailty is seriously flawed. In a Chicago study, many bars that allow smoking were found to have pollution levels as much as five times higher than a air pollution advisory day -- and the Twin Cities rarely, if ever, experiences those. So the hour in the bar is actually worse than five hours on 494!
We'll see what happens -- I know in my case, my family left the state over this issue and now reside in smoke-free California. Did it cost a lot -- and I mean a lot -- of money? Yes! Was it worth it? Without a doubt! In Minnesota, I was unable to go out and meet people, go to restaurants, even go to my company's Christmas party. Here, I have more social life than I know what to do with!
For the sake of people in my case, I believe smoking bans to be one of the absolute essential issues of the day, and I support them wholeheartedly.
We used to live in Oregon/Washington and they too had all non-smoking places. When we moved here we were shocked. We love Minnesota but really don't like the smoking. At least Hennepin county has non-smoking restaurants etc. now so we're able to go out to eat more often, instead of getting take-out. Smokers don't get how awful it smells and how it affects others. If we could afford a move back to the west coast that would be the main reason to go!
So on that note, I ask you, Why should smokers have to put up with the childish whining from non-smokers"?
These problems all come about because 1, people actually believe everything they hear on the news, and 2, they actually believe everything that their stupid friends say.
Talk to me about whining and negative affects when you have a three year old that has to have a nebulizer filled with albuterol so he can breathe. Or when I have to rush our seven year old to Children's due to her asthma too. Or explaining to my kids why we can't go into that restaurant because there is smoking and they will get sick from it. Or the fact that their grandmother is dead because of heart failure due to smoking. She smoked even while she was on oxygen. Stupid, and she knew it and would agree with it. So stop slamming nonsmokers just because you don't like the way our state is changing.
Go down to the asthma walk in June in downtown and see how many kids and adults are affected majorly by smoking. Smoking does not cause asthma, however it makes it much worse. So when you're smoking (because it's your right), think about all of the kids out there (and adults) who are having a tough time breathing because you're exercising "your rights". Just because we have "rights" does not make them right.
At no point did I ever slam non-smokers. Nor do I judge a person on whether (s)he smokes or not. My complaint is with these people, much like the 2 in the posts above, that feel that the rest of the world should comply with their individual ways of life.
There are many many many more people on this planet that can go into bars and be in smokey environments without suffering many of the effects that you claim above. There are many people with asthma, but there are no studies that conclude that all of those childeren are mostly affected by smoking as you also claim above. Up until Americans all felt entitled to this illusion called fairness, nature had it's way of dealing with the weak. It was called natural selection. If you could not swim you were just smart enough to stay away from the water. You did not have thousands of people sit there spending everyone elses time and money dicussing possible laws to make lakes fair to non-swimmers. The same should apply here.
I also find it amuzing that somebody with such respritory issues would move from one of the cleanest states in the country, just because they allowed people to make their own decisions, to one of the most smog/pollution ridden regions on the planet. Your argument does not hold water. It is an ignorant one sided comment that is not based on any fact what so ever other than the fact that you do not like smoking for your own personal reasons.
You also cannot compare the air quality in Chicago to the air quality in the Twin Cities. I advise you to look up a study done a year after the smoking ban in Hennepin county went into affect. There was little or no improvement in air quality in Hennepin county at all during that first year of the smoking ban. To anyone who is able to think on their own, that would make it seem like smoking is not the problem. The only county that showed an improvement in air quality in that year was Dakota county. Guess what. Dakota county does not have a smoking ban. So as I stated before. The average resturant has the proper ventilation so therefore spending an hour on 494 is like spending 6 hours in a resturant.
It is true that there is plenty of places that are smokey and the air quality is crap. Those kind of places usually sell lots of liquor and the majority of their business is with those that drink and smoke. You should not have your childeren there anyways. On a side note, there are many people that go in there that do not develop breathing problems and lung diseases.
To sum it all up. If you do not like smoking. Go somewhere else. Nobody forces you to enter establishments that allow smoking.
It should be the choice of the owner of the establishment. Period. If they don't want the business of non-smokers, why should that be any business of anybody else but them?
Last edited by Yorkie_Mom; 03-05-2007 at 10:26 PM..
Reason: Personal attacks
Why do the non-smokers have to cause discrimination.
Why don't the non-smokers allow the restaurants and bars to have a Smoking Only Facility. - Then only Smokers would be there.
Then also allow the bars and restaurants to have a non-smoking facility.
Let the Bars and Restaurants choose, which type of facility they want to have.
If it is a smoking only Restaurant - Then only smokers can go in to it - no non-smokers.
If it is a non-smoking restaurant - Only non-smokers could go in to the restaurant.
Is there anything wrong with this solution - It keeps the non smokers from inhaling the smoke.
It keeps the smokers out of the non-smoking establishments.
How about it, please give me your comments. When you do also please state whether you are a smoker or non-smoker
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I also find it amuzing that somebody with such respritory issues would move from one of the cleanest states in the country, just because they allowed people to make their own decisions, to one of the most smog/pollution ridden regions on the planet. Your argument does not hold water. It is an ignorant one sided comment that is not based on any fact what so ever other than the fact that you do not like smoking for your own personal reasons.
If you're talking to me, you have no right at all to tell me what to do with my life. Am I FAR healthier in California? YES!! Was I sick non-stop in Minnesota? YES!! The cigarette smoke was horrible and unavoidable, and it kept me sick. Some people seem not to understand this -- it's not an annoyance, it's a health issue that literally keeps you bed-ridden for much of the time. Your comment is truly ignorant and juvenile, I can not hide my utter contempt that a small number of people still think this way.
Also, I'm looking out at a beautiful ocean and clean blue skies here. Pollution data states the air is cleaner here on the California coast than it is in the Twin Cities (compare peak ozone reading most years, you'll see we're about 10-20% lower here). Not all of CA is like Riverside or the San Fernando Valley. And even when I'm in smog, it does not compare to smoke. See, I am allergic to tobacco -- if a tobacco field was on fire, I'd react too. But I'm not allergic to ozone. Is it bad for me? Yep. Will it make me sick for two months if I spend an hour in it? Nope.
Therefore, cigarette smoke hurts me FAR worse than smog. Make sense now?
All I know is it was the best thing I've ever done in my life, it turned my life around and turned my health around! And anyone who is allergic to smoke and stuck in a backwoods place that still allow smoke in public places owes it to themselves and those around them to do what they have to do to make themselves healthy -- go somewhere where they're understood and accepted.
Funny, I've never had a Californian give me hassle about my allergy to smoke. But I got called a lot of names in Minnesota when I said I could not join people in smoky bars. Hey, I'm just glad I'm out the Twin Cities, it was the worst place I've ever lived!
Also.. to call people with allergies or asthma weak... well, that's way beyond despicable. I have no use for anyone with that type of attitude.
Yeah, Americans now have a sense of fairness, I call it respect and being a decent person. I guess not everyone gets it.....
Choose your wording better -- to insult others over things they can not control is the lowest thing a human being can do, in my opinion!
Again, I am so glad I am out of Minnesota... I forgot how often I had to deal with attitudes like yours up there. California is paradise in many ways -- not perfect, but the tolerance for fellow humans out here is light years ahead of what I experienced in Minnesota. I'd love to give examples, but there are some good people in MN and on this board from MN, and I don't want to offend any of them.
So on that note, I ask you, Why should smokers have to put up with the childish whining from non-smokers"?
Do you realize that you breath in more pollutants driving on 494 during rush hour for 30 minutes than you do sitting in a resurant for 6 hours? Even if you are in a smoking section of a resturant (assuming that the place has a vent or 2) you breath in less toxins than you would if you were to hang out next to a freeway for a couple of hours.
So before you go complaining about things that you really have no knowledge of, maybe you should research the issue so you do not sound like a complete idiot.
These problems all come about because 1, people actually believe everything they hear on the news, and 2, they actually believe everything that their stupid friends say.
You keep on believing that and maybe it will be true someday. Besides that, I don't drive on 494 or any other highway for 30 minutes during rush hour so it is a non-issue.
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