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No, the gang issue wasn't central, but someone had brought it up, that's all.
The other earlier comments were more a general warning than anything else (and not to any one person in particular); there have been some deleted comments that have been off-topic and veered into race-baiting/trolling territory. Discussion and opposing viewpoints are welcome, as long as they stay within the parameters of the terms of service.
Thanks, Duk123, for the updates on South; I guess I jumped to conclusions about where the kids went to school. I suppose it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, but I'd be a little rattled if I was a student and saw a video of my classmates doing things like that. I certainly had classmates who had problems, but in the days before youtube and the like you didn't have the shock value of seeing it on tape and set to music.
while wanting to protect the rights of "children" and those who have a history of being treated unfairly, i am disturbed by such utube videos that to me are another indicator that our society has lost the ability to defend itself or the volition to do so. we are far more concerned about the rights of these young people while they harm others than those they harm. too often the terrorizing of a neighborhood ak "gooning" is seen as "an incident" by some "troubled young people" and not as crime that should be immediately met with force. as a child in new orleans roving young white thugs would harm AA, the behavior was minimized by authorities as "troubled youth", it was whitewashing then its whitewashing now.
Last edited by Huckleberry3911948; 11-27-2009 at 08:22 AM..
I agree with you that this certainly shouldn't be written off as "troubled youth" or harmless pranks, and do think that there are some in Minneapolis who are quick to do so. These kids (and while I say kids, I also feel they are certainly old enough to be held accountable for their actions) are proof that something has gone really wrong in society, or at least in some parts of society (and that's where I hesitate to make it a Somali-specific issue, because there are others out there from other backgrounds who have done similar things) and the kids who think it's okay, and funny, to assault people are the kids who are going to be moving on to even more criminal behaviors in the future. This sort of thing needs to be stopped now, before it gets out of hand. That's to the benefit of all of everyone, of course, but it's also in the interests of the kids themselves. While my sympathies definitely lie with the victims, I still would like to think that there's at least some hope that these kids can get their lives straightened out so that they can, if at all possible, turn into contributing members of society.
There was also that incident in Richmond, CA recently where a teenage girl was gang raped while a crowd of people stood by and watched, but didn't report it; as a historian I realize that horrible things like this have happened throughout time, there still seems to be (whether real or just in the media) a wave of young criminal behavior. The kids in this video aren't doing anything nearly as terrible, but it's the same sort of blatant disregard and lack of empathy for others. It also shows how things can get out of hand easily, and escalate from the bad to the truly horrific.
I agree with you that this certainly shouldn't be written off as "troubled youth" or harmless pranks, and do think that there are some in Minneapolis who are quick to do so. These kids (and while I say kids, I also feel they are certainly old enough to be held accountable for their actions) are proof that something has gone really wrong in society, or at least in some parts of society (and that's where I hesitate to make it a Somali-specific issue, because there are others out there from other backgrounds who have done similar things) and the kids who think it's okay, and funny, to assault people are the kids who are going to be moving on to even more criminal behaviors in the future. This sort of thing needs to be stopped now, before it gets out of hand. That's to the benefit of all of everyone, of course, but it's also in the interests of the kids themselves. While my sympathies definitely lie with the victims, I still would like to think that there's at least some hope that these kids can get their lives straightened out so that they can, if at all possible, turn into contributing members of society.
There was also that incident in Richmond, CA recently where a teenage girl was gang raped while a crowd of people stood by and watched, but didn't report it; as a historian I realize that horrible things like this have happened throughout time, there still seems to be (whether real or just in the media) a wave of young criminal behavior. The kids in this video aren't doing anything nearly as terrible, but it's the same sort of blatant disregard and lack of empathy for others. It also shows how things can get out of hand easily, and escalate from the bad to the truly horrific.
That gang rape was horrible. And yes, this has happened throughout time. This also happens in other nations, mainly places where the rights of women are minimal at best.
To me, there is nothing shocking about these crimes. They have been happening for a long time. The difference is just like you said. Because of youtube, the shock value is there. This isn't just a Somali issue either. And the USA isn't the only place this happens. In Russia, there are skinheads that go around Moscow and St. Petersburg attacking immigrants and persons from Asia and Africa. These criminals even videotape them and have put them on youtube. A few skinheads even beheaded a Georgian person and put it on youtube. I can't find the link anymore. This behavior is basically commonplace. It is wrong no matter what. This kind of behavior isn't shocking. It just rarely made the news until now.
I really don't know what to say, other than the fact that what those kids did was wrong.
How about saying, "In order to make sure they understand that we are serious, a court should order that their arms be broken so to teach them not to do something like that again." I can't think of any other way to get through to these types of people. The kinds of teens who do that sort of thing only understand physical force and they need to have morality and a sense of responsibility beaten into them.
How about saying, "In order to make sure they understand that we are serious, a court should order that their arms be broken so to teach them not to do something like that again." I can't think of any other way to get through to these types of people. The kinds of teens who do that sort of thing only understand physical force and they need to have morality and a sense of responsibility beaten into them.
What do you propose? What do you think would turn them into productive members of society short of our investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in them (further victimizing taxpayers)? If they were crippled they could no longer hurt anyone, right?
Maybe we would be better off if vigilantes purposely passed through these areas with the intent of being attacked in order to legitimately execute these cretins in the name of self defense (which is what it would really be). I don't see how the disappearance of these punks would negatively affect our society in any sort of a way.
Perhaps this is what the City should do. Set up a crack team of law enforcement personnel and have them pose as potential victims in these areas. Wait for the criminals to strike and them WHAM! Unfortunately, though, arresting and incarcerating them really isn't an answer. The only real solution is to completely remove these people from our society by executing them. The only thing these people will ever do is impose costs on society in the form of crime and children born into poverty.
What do you propose? What do you think would turn them into productive members of society short of our investing hundreds of thousands of dollars in them (further victimizing taxpayers)? If they were crippled they could no longer hurt anyone, right?
Maybe we would be better off if vigilantes purposely passed through these areas with the intent of being attacked in order to legitimately execute these cretins in the name of self defense (which is what it would really be). I don't see how the disappearance of these punks would negatively affect our society in any sort of a way.
Perhaps this is what the City should do. Set up a crack team of law enforcement personnel and have them pose as potential victims in these areas. Wait for the criminals to strike and them WHAM! Unfortunately, though, arresting and incarcerating them really isn't an answer. The only real solution is to completely remove these people from our society by executing them. The only thing these people will ever do is impose costs on society in the form of crime and children born into poverty.
I don't see how executing people will help. I also don't see how killing people for crimes that don't result in death is even fair. Minnesota doesn't even have the death penalty. Why set the death penalty lower crimes? I live in one of the top 10 most violent states in the USA, Georgia. I live near Atlanta, which gets between 100-130 murders a year. I still don't get how any of those measures help, especially when Georgia has the death penalty and won't hesitate to use it. Georgia also has the 2 strikes law(not the 3 strikes law like CA and IL, but much tougher.). Age 13 is the age wherea person will be tried and sentenced as an adult Georgia. It doesn't solve the fact that Georgia is much more violent than Minnesota. I don't agree with anything you are suggesting.
Why not just put the criminals in prison and give them an ultimatum to either get training so that they can go back into society as productive members, or they stay in prison.
If a criminal wants to hurt someone, they will find a way. A crippled person can always get a gun and murder someone.
BTW, what about the poor people who aren't going out and committing crimes and are trying to do better.
I am just going to say it. You aren't interested in productive solutions to rehabilitate people and make them productive members of society. You aren't interested in making sure that the persons who want to do better can do better. All you are interested in is getting rid of people.
Minneapolis used to be a nice place, before they opened the floodgates to outsiders. I remember growing up when the IDS was the only tall building. Times were different then.
Imagine what would be said if tapes of whites attacking only blacks surfaced. Would the national media be so silent then? Those pesky facts, like videotapes and eye witness accounts, sure are annoying to the media which is dedicated to reporting a precanned theme, rather than factual events. I don't think there is any hope of having a unified nation if one group is allowed to attack other groups with impunity. These people should get the max sentence for every single count of violence they are convicted of. Of course, we all know they will only get slapped on their wrists and be back to terrorizing residents soon.
I also don't see how killing people for crimes that don't result in death is even fair.
I don't seriously believe that we should execute people for this sort of thing, but it's a fun thought.
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Minnesota doesn't even have the death penalty. Why set the death penalty lower crimes? I live in one of the top 10 most violent states in the USA, Georgia. I live near Atlanta, which gets between 100-130 murders a year. I still don't get how any of those measures help, especially when Georgia has the death penalty and won't hesitate to use it. Georgia also has the 2 strikes law(not the 3 strikes law like CA and IL, but much tougher.). Age 13 is the age wherea person will be tried and sentenced as an adult Georgia. It doesn't solve the fact that Georgia is much more violent than Minnesota.
Maybe it's what you're not seeing. You don't get to see all of the crimes these people would have committed had they not been incarcerated.
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I don't agree with anything you are suggesting.
Why not just put the criminals in prison and give them an ultimatum to either get training so that they can go back into society as productive members, or they stay in prison.
If a criminal wants to hurt someone, they will find a way. A crippled person can always get a gun and murder someone.
BTW, what about the poor people who aren't going out and committing crimes and are trying to do better.
They'll be much better off without the criminals.
Quote:
I am just going to say it. You aren't interested in productive solutions to rehabilitate people and make them productive members of society. You aren't interested in making sure that the persons who want to do better can do better. All you are interested in is getting rid of people.
The problem is that the types of people who commit these crimes--senseless acts of unnecessary violence--probably cannot be truly rehabilitated. I can understand the motivations of someone who robs people or who commits murder for revenge, but not senseless violence for no real gain. How do you propose to teach them empathy and reason?
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