Breck or Blake school? (Minnetonka, Hopkins: 2015, chapel, neighborhood)

[Yosh01]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

There is some truth to this, though there are several specials needs kids in my child's class at Minnehaha.

From my experience, the premier private schools have decent support for special needs children during the elementary and middle school years, but upper school is another matter. In my son's school, starting the freshman year things got much more serious academically and many of the students who struggled through the early years were weeded out. So much so, that the school heavily recruited replacements to keep the graduating class rightsized. Of course they did not recruit students who were not already proven academic successes.

My neighbors and friends with kids who found school easy did very well at large inner city schools which have a whole separate AP track for high achievers.

Unfortunately, none of the schools, whether $20,000/year private or free public, have found the key to help the students who need it. All the schools do well with those that don't.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Yosh01

From my experience, the premier private schools have decent support for special needs children during the elementary and middle school years, but upper school is another matter. In my son's school, starting the freshman year things got much more serious academically and many of the students who struggled through the early years were weeded out. So much so, that the school heavily recruited replacements to keep the graduating class rightsized. Of course they did not recruit students who were not already proven academic successes.

My neighbors and friends with kids who found school easy did very well at large inner city schools which have a whole separate AP track for high achievers.

Unfortunately, none of the schools, whether $20,000/year private or free public, have found the key to help the students who need it. All the schools do well with those that don't.

It's a big world, so it is not surprising that we may have had different experiences.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

There is some truth to this, though there are several specials needs kids in my child's class at Minnehaha. I've said before that we chose Minnehaha because we wanted our child to attend a Christian school, but she has benefited from the individual attention and specialized instruction that she's been able to receive because of the low student to faculty ratio. I attended a large public school and did ok, but I never excelled. It seems to me that often smart kids do well in spite of the large public schools whereas average students can benefit from the advantages of a smaller, private institution.

When I've talk to parents about private education, the objection I hear most often is about money. Not that they don't have it, but they don't want to spend it on tuition. Fair enough. Everyone makes their own choices about what to do with the resources they've been given. But these private school students are not all from wealthy homes. For those who don't have the money, Minnehaha offers tuition assistance programs, and I'd guess the other major private schools do, as well. And, in my experience, many come from a home with an average income where the parents decided that private education was a spending priority for their family.

My 1st reason for not going private was the drive / commute. The 2nd was uprooting them from their friends. We looked at a private school (they were K-12) and I didn't like the concept of 12 graders going to the same school as 1st graders. That was my beef and not my wives. Also the one we looked at the closest was pretty weak in sports and accelerated options. They also mandated classes in 11th and 12th grade as a poison pill for PSEO.

Back to the money. Spending thousands certainly was a big part of the formula. If I really thought I'd get something for the outlay, I would have done it in a heartbeat. But my DD had dreams of becoming a dentist and my DS a doctor so I was saving my pennies. DD is in dental school which is extremely expensive. DS will get into med school. but his will be "free" (Service Academy).

I am glad I saved $$'s and didn't feel the need to go private. I am spending around $94K in living expenses and tuition/fees this year for our kids. OUCH! Now double OUCH! If I blew their tuition $'s in the early years, it would have cut into their college fund. Hence, they would be straddled with more debt. I cannot afford or rationalize paying $94K a year x 4. As an interesting stat, the average dental student comes out with $325K in debt. I thought $7K a year of K-12 tuition would be much better spent keeping her out of hawk.

Saying that, if I lived in hundreds of other locations across the country, I would have seen the value and written out the check for private K-12. It's a personal decision. I just took offense to someone who suggests that their school is the bomb and Edina (in her words) doesn't compare to even Orono.

[ocsid]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

My 1st reason for not going private was the drive / commute. The 2nd was uprooting them from their friends. We looked at a private school (they were K-12) and I didn't like the concept of 12 graders going to the same school as 1st graders. That was my beef and not my wives. Also the one we looked at the closest was pretty weak in sports and accelerated options. They also mandated classes in 11th and 12th grade as a poison pill for PSEO.

The uprooting from friends would be a big thing for me. Our son won't be in school for a couple years yet, but we're in Wayzata, and weve considered OE him in Orono just because it's a smaller school. I don't know that we'll do that, but it's been loosely discussed.

I find it a little bit amusing when people have a concern about K-12 (or even 7-12, or 9-12) in the same building, when that's pretty much the norm in smaller rural districts. I have a lot of friends who went to school in K-12 buildings.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by ocsid

The uprooting from friends would be a big thing for me. Our son won't be in school for a couple years yet, but we're in Wayzata, and weve considered OE him in Orono just because it's a smaller school. I don't know that we'll do that, but it's been loosely discussed.

I find it a little bit amusing when people have a concern about K-12 (or even 7-12, or 9-12) in the same building, when that's pretty much the norm in smaller rural districts. I have a lot of friends who went to school in K-12 buildings.

Minnehaha, SPA, and Blake are K-12 (or preK-12) but upper and lower grades are on different campuses. I am not sure about Breck. We have a lot of very positive interaction between kids of all ages at MA, where older students are very protective of the young ones, and the need for them to be positive role models is stressed.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by ocsid

The uprooting from friends would be a big thing for me. Our son won't be in school for a couple years yet, but we're in Wayzata, and weve considered OE him in Orono just because it's a smaller school. I don't know that we'll do that, but it's been loosely discussed.

I assume the days are numbered before they split up the Wayzata district. Maybe they will call it Plymouth High School. Talk with a school board member to see how often it is discussed. I cannot image adding in 25% more students into that district in the next 10 years without a split. Correct me if I am wrong but I think there still is a lot of land being developed in your district.

The competition is brutal for playing sports in Wayzata. In one example, close to 300 kids try out for youth hockey at a single squirt level. Our area has about 70 kids try out for squirts and that is competitive enough. I factually know my son would not have made the varsity hockey team. He would have been weeded out in squirts. All parents who want the best for their kids tie a little of their own self esteem to how their kid perform. Since sports are so visible, incredibly competitive schools like Wayzata are going to send their kids to every known sport camp. Since everyone seems to be doing it, kids are forced to focus way too early on one sport and a lot of great athletes have missed future HS opportunities. This paragraph is a lot of words to say I really would not want my kids to go to Wayzata. It's better to be a big fish in a smaller pond. If the district doesn't split, I would strongly consider moving, private, or OE.

Originally Posted by ocsid

I find it a little bit amusing when people have a concern about K-12 (or even 7-12, or 9-12) in the same building, when that's pretty much the norm in smaller rural districts. I have a lot of friends who went to school in K-12 buildings.

You are correct. In rural areas, this is the norm. I'm sure there are positives that come out of a small school where K-12 walk the halls together. They will get buy but it wasn't for me. Of course I graduated from Anoka in the 80's before the splits and I was use to 1000 kids per grade.

But just as Wayzata is too big, IMHO there is such a thing as a school being too small. Competing against a class size of 15-30 isn't enough of a challenge. DS's goal was to graduate #1 in his class in HS out of 6xx. He accomplished that goal. But he would not have worked so hard when you are taking classes with kids three years younger than you. That goal is too easy to accomplish. Privates of course are going to have a much higher competition level as compared to a rural area.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by ocsid

The uprooting from friends would be a big thing for me. Our son won't be in school for a couple years yet, but we're in Wayzata, and weve considered OE him in Orono just because it's a smaller school. I don't know that we'll do that, but it's been loosely discussed.

I find it a little bit amusing when people have a concern about K-12 (or even 7-12, or 9-12) in the same building, when that's pretty much the norm in smaller rural districts. I have a lot of friends who went to school in K-12 buildings.

I agree that there are a lot of benefits to K-12 education. The schools I know that have K-12, or even K-8 keep the kids separated day to day but there is a lot of interaction with the kids where the older kids come and work in the elementary classrooms, helping with reading groups or whatever. It's very positive and really isn't an issue. There is also separation in wings of buildings so the kids aren't walking in the same hallways together at all. They all have separate playgrounds for the elementary and middle school aged kids too.


As for Wayzata splitting, maybe but like Eden Prairie, they like being big...and "dominating" the sports scene. Some people don't mind that size, others it's not for them.

[ocsid]

Wayzata and EP are two completely different situations. EP did not split because they expect enrollment to decline in the next 20 years. The district is now basically built to capacity, and they did not want to end up like Hopkins, Edina, Roseville and White Bear where they built a second high school at peak enrollment only to have to close it in the future. It is not because they want to be big and dominant.

Wayzata is not built to capacity. There's still a lot of new housing being built or planned out in Medina/Corcoran area on the western edge of the district. Wayzata absolutely should build another high school. But they aren't going to apparently. There have been stories in the Star Tribune and Lakeshore news on the topic recently, and as of now, they plan to keep expanding the already massive high school.

[Tizzielish]

My daughter chose Breck after a Waldorf grade school. I was skeptical, not believing such a formal prep school would serve it. And I am not sure it did. She happily left after two years to enroll at Simon's Rock College of Bard, never finished h.s. or bothered with the G.E.D. After the Rock, she transferred to an Ivy and graduated magna *** laude. Not too shabby, eh?

She had a steep learning curve when she first got to Breck. Into German, there was only one German class for her to take and she was sadly far behind. but she worked her ass off and ended up with A's by the final semester, blowing away the teacher.

She had not been forced to work super hard, to master massive amounts of material at Waldorf. She had been taught to think critically at Waldorf, to feel and think artistically, to have a find life of the imaginatoin and she knew all kinds of stuff about history, nature and science that the Breck kids didn't know.

At the first parent teacher conferences, every one of her freshman teachers asked me "What have you been doing with her? She's behind in some study skills bu she is insightful and knows more about life and being practical and smart practical than any other kid here. In history class, she could ragale the class, and the teacher, with elaborate storires from different historical eras that are part and parcel of Waldorf. She had a main teacher at Waldorf scho loved math so she had learnerd a lot of math, which helpered her freshman geometry and Waldorf does great science education so she rolled effortlessly with biochemistry insted of biologyThe school abandoned her when they learnred she was droppiong out to start college early. Even at the pressure tank atmosphere at Breck, she simply was not relaly challenged. being pressured to absorb tons of boring facts and formulas is not our idea of education and that's all she was doing at Breck. I supose that hellps with the SAT but, hey, my kid got into an Ivy without ever taking one. Her straight a's in highschool and then two years of college were enough for the Ivy.

I hated the social life at Breck, had wanted her to choose Blake. I know Blake is said to be 'old money' but old money is usually less snotty than the new money snots we found at Breck.

I hated Breck and was glad to get her out early, even though I lost two years living with her I'll never get back.

Breck can open doors for kids. I saw lots of idiot friends of hers get into decent schools that were lucky to graduate h.s. Rich and entitled, some kids coasted and teachers were pressured to give them good grades.

My favorite Breck story. I had missed her sophomore English teacher on parent teacher night so when the teacher ofered make up appointments, I scheduled one. When she met with me, before school one day, she began saying "I suppose you are here to complain that I don't give Katie A's on all her work." I said "I am not here for that. I assume my Katie will do just fine, her grades don't really matter to me. I am here because I cre about the adults teaching my daughter. I want you to know a parent cares about Katie. I beleive that will shape ho you treat her. My sis is a teacher and she says the parents who care tends to get better attention for their kids. Give her the grade you think she deserves. Just teacher her wlell, challenge her, care about her." she told all her English classes that day that Katie had one of the coolest moms she had ever met.

Grades matter, esp. I suppose, if you stick out h.s. for four years, have middling grades and middle test scores. My kid is literally genius and excelleed at everything she veer did.

Her German teacher told me in the spring of her freshman year he had never seen a student advance fo quickly. I know why she advanced quickly: she studied German for hours every night. She would stay up late until she knew all the German for the next day. The rich, pampered kids who had been at Breck since kindergarden never worked that hard.

I hted Breck, the pressure to dress well, live in the right places, go to the right parties, know the right people was hideous, which is why I encouraged her to drop out after two years and start college early.

But her two years at Breck prepared her for college. She had learned how to work her ass off and when she got the the IVy, she had to work her ass off to get magna *** laude.

[Happyparents]

I read through this thread before deciding where to send our kids to school and, given the amount of research that I did, figured that I’d share my conclusion. I visited both schools with my wife a number of times and interviewed many of the teachers. I realize that interviewing teachers is a bit opposite of what most people expect, but it was critical to me to make a decision based on facts and not simply what the schools advertise or (with all due respect) what is posted by fanboys or fangirls online. I view myself as a relatively normal person who wants his kids to get the best possible education, develop lasting friendships and have a great time while not falling into the debilitating world of one-upmanship that is not unusual in private schools. I have always been a bit of an over-researcher and, in this case, I believe that it has served me well. Below is a summary of my findings.

While both schools are good, we chose Breck. First and foremost, we chose Breck because the teachers consistently and clearly seemed to be more experienced, more caring, passionate and committed. The teachers at Blake seem disjointed in their teaching style, strategy and philosophy. Simply put, the academics at Breck seem to be much better organized, more rigorous and presented in a way that is more digestible for students. The average tenure of a Breck teacher is 23 years and many of them send their own children to Breck. This is an interesting fact considering, unlike Blake, Breck teachers are not given a tuition discount. Still more of the Breck teachers send their kids to Breck than do Blake teachers send their kids to Blake. This is a telling point but, still, our decision was based on our own research of the school’s offerings and capabilities.

Of course the Breck facility is orders of magnitude nicer than Blake. Beautiful libraries, a new science facility that would rival that in Ivy League schools (I speak from experience) and an overall layout that is wonderfully conducive to learning. Again, it’s important to note that our decision was based on the education that our children receive. The beautiful facilities were an added bonus.

Early on, I was a bit concerned about the Episcopal aspects of Breck. I am not Episcopal and am not interested in having our kids confused about their religion. Fortunately this concern was dispelled during my first visit. Breck believes that there are many paths to G_d and respects them all equally. Breck’s philosophy is that religion is an important aspect of life but, in no way, emphasizes one religion over the other. I’m not a very religious person and had no concerns whatsoever after learning more about how Breck approaches religion. In fact, I agree that it’s important for kids of all religions to have a place where they can learn more about their own religion as well as that of others, particularly now when understanding diversity is more important than ever. This, in my opinion, gives Breck kids an advantage that will serve them well in life.

Breck’s academic rigor is reasonable but not to be taken lightly. For example, I recently spoke with a girl went to Breck and just finished Stanford medical school. She said that Stanford seemed easy compared to Breck. I also speak with friends who send their kids to top private schools in New York, and they seem significantly more rigorous them Breck. Again, I think that Breck offers intense academic rigor but delivers it in a way that is manageable. Our kids do several extracurricular activities and we are able to make sure that they are not overwhelmed.

Breck is extremely service oriented, so right away kids go on field trips to volunteer etc. Another critical aspect of learning that is almost absent at Blake.

My last point is one that I’m sure will bother some folks but it’s honest and was an important part of our research. Blake is more of the quintessential private school. I believe that the discussion in this thread of “new money” and “old money” is silly. You’ll find both and both schools. What isn’t silly to me, however, is that it’s apparent that a much greater proportion of the Blake families are image conscious and have children who are effected by this as a result. There is an almost palpable feeling of perceived entitlement and one-upmanship at Blake. I think that this sort of unrealistic and out-of-touch environment creates children who end up living much of their lives in a painful and unwinnable rat race. Breck, on the other hand, strongly discourages this behavior. Kids in 1st-4th grade wear uniforms to discourage them from trying to outdo each other with clothing. Clothing labels are not allowed in the school in any grade. Teachers work hard to ensure that this sort of big-fish-in-a-small-pond behavior does not exist. Blake does not focus on this and it’s evident.

The levels of diversity between Blake and Breck are diametrically opposite. Check with the schools for updated statistics but, unlike Breck, Blake is not a diverse school. Again, just look at the statistics. These days, this puts Blake students at a significant disadvantage, even to the students at our public school. We had a good public option and would have chosen it over Blake.

There are many parents who look forward to pulling up to school in a fancy car, to wear fancy jewelry to their children’s school events and to try and outdo other parents by having the fanciest birthday parties for their kids. These parents will instill similar values in their children and maybe this isn’t a bad thing. After all, it’s just my opinion. Blake is a good place for these kinds of parents to send their kids.

I was raised to treat other kids as equals and my parents did not tolerate exception to this rule. I believe that this has helped me tremendously in life. I have been blessed with the resources send our kids to a school where they will learn a tremendous amount, build lasting friendships and develop strong values that will take them far in life. Breck is an incredible place for these things and more.