Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I transfered to Breck my freshman year and was a year behind in the academics because the Breck kids were so far ahead. I stayed connected with my public school friends and we were doing things as freshman that the public school sophomores were doing. For example, average math at Breck freshman year is Geometry, which was advanced at public school and was average for the SOPHOMORES at public school. As a freshman we also took physics which many seniors take at public school. Our English class read a book first semester that the public school kids read last semester. Breck is very advanced academically and is a very good college prep school.
To expand a bit upon what golfgal said:
When I went to Northfield High School in the 1980s, most students took Geometry in 10th grade. Today, at the same school, my kids (who are in the mainstream math group) took it/are taking it in 9th grade. It is grouped between Algebra and Advanced Algebra. But since geometry is such a fundamentally different discipline, it really could be taken a year later (ie, after Advanced Algebra but before Pre-Calculus) and it would say little if anything about a student's mathematical acumen. Anyway, the entire math flow is accelerated a year over what it was then. The mainstream math flow ended with Pre-Calculus in 12th grade; now it is ending with Calculus in 12th grade.
I had physics in 9th grade over a quarter century ago. Everyone at my good old public high school did. Then I had it again in 12th grade, as did most students who were college-bound, though a few took it in 11th grade.
And as golfgal noted, literature within a given year is not sequential. It's not like mathematics, where a certain application must be mastered in order to proceed to a certain other application. You don't have to take Dickens before Hemingway or Hemingway before Steinbeck.
I'm not saying Breck isn't 'better' (whatever that means), but even if it is, the facts you note are not indicative of it.
Providence students test about a year ahead of Blake and are given much stronger educations. Know of parents leaving Breck cause it is not challenging and they dont handle gifted students as well. Blake is a fine school, but as a parent and somebody involved with college interviews for the elite schools, providence is starting to pull away. providence seems to be one of the better prep schools in the Midwest and should get national attention in he next five-seven years if they continue on their path. The students are flat out impressive, Blake students are cookie cutter and Breck seem a bit flighty.
Also amazed at for the size how well providence does in sports with numerous recent titles in golf, girls basketball and other areas. Had a girl get into Harvard who was on the basketball team at providence. Also have not found providence students not to be conservative bible nut jobs as some have talked about on here, think it is more Blake/Breck parents realizing they are passed by. Do know that students not let into providence are let into Blake.
When I went to Northfield High School in the 1980s, most students took Geometry in 10th grade. Today, at the same school, my kids (who are in the mainstream math group) took it/are taking it in 9th grade. It is grouped between Algebra and Advanced Algebra. But since geometry is such a fundamentally different discipline, it really could be taken a year later (ie, after Advanced Algebra but before Pre-Calculus) and it would say little if anything about a student's mathematical acumen. Anyway, the entire math flow is accelerated a year over what it was then. The mainstream math flow ended with Pre-Calculus in 12th grade; now it is ending with Calculus in 12th grade.
I had physics in 9th grade over a quarter century ago. Everyone at my good old public high school did. Then I had it again in 12th grade, as did most students who were college-bound, though a few took it in 11th grade.
And as golfgal noted, literature within a given year is not sequential. It's not like mathematics, where a certain application must be mastered in order to proceed to a certain other application. You don't have to take Dickens before Hemingway or Hemingway before Steinbeck.
I'm not saying Breck isn't 'better' (whatever that means), but even if it is, the facts you note are not indicative of it.
I agree. I went to Hill Murray (which is well known for their education) and I took Advanced Algebra as a freshman, and advanced geometry as a sophomore. It doesn't matter which order you take them in, as long as both are taken before trig and calc.
The one school that doesn't seem to get mentioned after reading this thread is the Orono school system. Have to say have interviewed a number of kids from Orono and can see why that public school system is considered on par with Blake and Breck. The parent interest in the Orono school system seems to rival the privates and their gifted program is very very good, know of kids that were open enrolled to Orono from Breck. Would consider Orono public schools to be best in the state public miles ahead of Edina/wayzata ...they collect a number of awards. Also as the themes of all Minnesota suburban public schools better then other national public school systems is very true.
I went to Hopkins high school back in the late 90's, My mom teaches at Minnetonka high school, I had friend who went to Breck and Blake high school.
Since we all grew up together in elementary school and split during junior high, I don't see much of an advantage between public and private schools during this time period. We all went to whatever school we wanted to go, we all went through college just fine, and all got ok jobs. The individual and the choices that individual makes are more important to their future and outcome of thier life than what high school they choose IMO.
I am unsure of how you measure success or how people even measure knowledge. I mean, the only "real" value that is taught in schools are math/science/philosophy/etc. You need to learn about the world and become a good critical thinker.
The one school that doesn't seem to get mentioned after reading this thread is the Orono school system. Have to say have interviewed a number of kids from Orono and can see why that public school system is considered on par with Blake and Breck. The parent interest in the Orono school system seems to rival the privates and their gifted program is very very good, know of kids that were open enrolled to Orono from Breck. Would consider Orono public schools to be best in the state public miles ahead of Edina/wayzata ...they collect a number of awards. Also as the themes of all Minnesota suburban public schools better then other national public school systems is very true.
It sounds like you are delighted with your kids education. Wonderful. I was too.
As you accurately stated, parent involvement correlates with the caliber of their education. It just so happens that Orono (in your example) has a high concentration of involved parents. To assume that Orono or Providence teaches the advanced classes better than say Edina/wayzata is a stretch let alone Champlin Park HS. If a child is mature, smart, and motivated, PSEO is the way to go. Both of my kids went to college (PSEO) in 11th and 12th grade. They didn't attend to gain college credits. Our goal was to stretch them beyond a public AND private HS. It's fair to say that 13 college credits including engineering level chemistry out paces any private including Providence.
In a public system, the involved parent with a smart kid needs to ask to have their child leap frog up a year and eventually two. My kids were a couple years ahead in math and science to the point where PSEO was the only way to stretch them. So while the averages are clearly a notch down from your favorite private school, I don't care. I only care about how my kids are progressing. I'd be very happy to compare their standardized test scores with yours.
When someone comes on C-D touting how incredible their school is and infers their school is "miles apart" from Edina/Wayzata, I chuckle. Because the reality is the family culture in a quality school is going to dictate how much they are going to get out of their education. Sorry to come off thin skinned. We had friends that sent their kids to privates and would bash our public without understanding how they sound in front of me. The best I could tell, they were busy rationalizing why they were writing out checks. They felt the need to assume that the averages dictate how our kids performed. Sorry to come off defensive. But I smell a hint of an elitist attitude. I wanted to set the record straight. The biggest reason your school is special is because you shed the under achievers and nearly all of the average students. My kids (and others in advanced classes across public's) rarely took classes with three-quarters of the student body.
I recognize that Champlin Park HS will have even a smaller group of highly accomplished students. That's because fewer parents place an emphasis on education. Harvard may pass them by because they don't know what #1 in their class means in comparison to Blake or a even if a 35 on their SAT probably will not be good enough. Privates do a better job of grooming their students for Ivy's. If your goal to get into an Ivy, then that is a solid reason to go to Blake or Breck. My goal was to keep my kids out of debt and not blow all of my money on their education. While we are chatting, the majority of Harvard grads like the rest of "highly educated" college students grow up to do average things in life.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 01-18-2014 at 05:50 AM..
Also amazed at for the size how well providence does in sports with numerous recent titles in golf, girls basketball and other areas. Had a girl get into Harvard who was on the basketball team at providence. Also have not found providence students not to be conservative bible nut jobs as some have talked about on here, think it is more Blake/Breck parents realizing they are passed by. Do know that students not let into providence are let into Blake.
One student going to Harvard isn't really something to brag about. Most suburban high schools have several kids accepted to Ivy's every year. I'm glad you are happy with the education your children are receiving but the suburban schools are as good, if not better than the private schools in MN...
The private schools tend to cater to well heeled parents of smart kids so it's obvious they would rate high academically with high college acceptance. At the same time, they have little patience for average and struggling students who don't fit their mold. They don't have the resources or interest in helping students with problems. It's easy to claim a 100% college acceptance rate when you've forced all the non-college bound students out of the system.
Students who excel in academics will do well in either Blake or Breck, or any school for that matter. My point is that schools tend to be highly rated because of the students they attract or accept, not necessarily because they have any special ability to help struggling students succeed.
The private schools tend to cater to well heeled parents of smart kids so it's obvious they would rate high academically with high college acceptance. At the same time, they have little patience for average and struggling students who don't fit their mold. They don't have the resources or interest in helping students with problems. It's easy to claim a 100% college acceptance rate when you've forced all the non-college bound students out of the system.
Students who excel in academics will do well in either Blake or Breck, or any school for that matter. My point is that schools tend to be highly rated because of the students they attract or accept, not necessarily because they have any special ability to help struggling students succeed.
There is some truth to this, though there are several specials needs kids in my child's class at Minnehaha. I've said before that we chose Minnehaha because we wanted our child to attend a Christian school, but she has benefited from the individual attention and specialized instruction that she's been able to receive because of the low student to faculty ratio. I attended a large public school and did ok, but I never excelled. It seems to me that often smart kids do well in spite of the large public schools whereas average students can benefit from the advantages of a smaller, private institution.
When I've talk to parents about private education, the objection I hear most often is about money. Not that they don't have it, but they don't want to spend it on tuition. Fair enough. Everyone makes their own choices about what to do with the resources they've been given. But these private school students are not all from wealthy homes. For those who don't have the money, Minnehaha offers tuition assistance programs, and I'd guess the other major private schools do, as well. And, in my experience, many come from a home with an average income where the parents decided that private education was a spending priority for their family.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Providence is a level above
