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Pretty much every country in the western world does this. Non-citizen residents can vote in local elections, but not state/national elections. People here are whining about nothing. Besides, most of the people whining are supposed Christians, who use Leviticus to demonize gays, but forget (or choose to willfully ignore) this part:
Leviticus 19:34
"You must treat the foreigner living among you as native-born and love him as yourself, for you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the LORD your God."
Damn those Dems, living up to Christain values, unlike actual Christians in this country and state.
At any rate, illegals won't want to vote, as then they need ID and/or it brings them into danger of being captured and deported. And remember this, most illegal immigrants in this country are people who've overstayed their visas, not migrant workers doing jobs that no one wants, for pay that no one will accept.
If your friend jumped off a cliff, would you too?
Illegals/non-residents voting has real world consequences for local government, you're discounting those.
ID for what? Many states already issue driver's licenses for the undocumented, that's all that's needed.
If your friend jumped off a cliff, would you, too?
Illegals/non-residents voting has real world consequences for local government, you're discounting those.
Illegals won't vote due to the threat of deportation. And it's not non-residents, it's non-citizen residents, and it's something every western nation does. It's actually a net benefit for localities.
And again, leviticus 19:34:
"The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God"
Why is it that Dems are more true to the Bible than the GOP? Hmm? As a lifelong Republican, I switched because you guys decided that fascism and bigotry were the way to go.
Quote:
ID for what? Many states already issue driver's licenses for the undocumented, that's all that's needed.
The 16 states that will give driver's licenses to unauthorized immigrants also require an applicant provide certain documentation, such as a foreign birth certificate, foreign passport, or consular card and evidence of current residency in the state. How many migrant workers have that sort of thing on hand? Hmmm? Do you ever think things through or just have a knee jerk reaction to what Tucker Carlson tells you to think?
Since we've gone off on a tangent about illegal immigrants, let's give you a bit of reality:
You have to consider it a question of economic diffusion: people are far more likely to migrate from a poor country to a wealthy one in order to improve their standards of living. Thus, until such time as South American nations become closer in parity to the United States in terms of income and generation of wealth, you’re going to find that people want to move from poor countries with negative economic prospects to the United States. It’s not for nothing that you have far fewer immigrants coming in from Europe and other developed nations than you do for the poorer ones.
Realistically, you could slow or stop immigration levels simply be prosecuting American employers illegally hiring migrant workers: if employment opportunities dry up, so too will the flood of people trying to obtain them. However, certain American industries are actually dependent on migrant labor. The state of Georgia tried to ban migrant workers, and guess what happened?:
The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires
Although many Americans believe immigrants “steal” our jobs and push down our wages, economists find little evidence of that.
Bit of an oops, really: turns out that if you don’t have migrant workers in agriculture, construction, hospitality…state economies struggle, and in some cases, collapse outright, with billions in lost industry. Not exactly profitable to the US economy, is it? The bigger irony, of course, is that the states most dependent on migrant labor are frequently rural Republican states. The ones who complain the most about immigrants are the ones who are dependent on them.
That said…realistically, you don’t want to stop immigration: it’s a net benefit to the United States, on a huge level. Immigrants are far more likely to work, and will often accept lower wages. They’re far more likely to create new businesses. As the National Academy of Sciences determined back in 2015:
The high employment levels for the least educated immigrants indicate that employer demand for low-skilled labor remains high. There are still many jobs in the United States for low-skilled workers (Lockard and Wolf, 2012). Among the important reasons cited for this high demand have been the substantial shrinkage since 1990 of the U.S.-born, younger, less-skilled working-age population (those who are native born, ages 25-44, and with educational attainment of a high school diploma or less), owing to the aging of Baby Boomers; higher educational attainment among the U.S.-born; and a fertility rate below the replacement rate for the U.S.-born…. In other words, immigrants appear to be taking low-skilled jobs that natives are either not available or unwilling to take.
What needs to happen is that politicians in the United States need to stop using immigrants as an opportunity to grab votes. Ron DeSantis’ rather brazen act of transporting (in what was potentially an illegal act!) migrants to Massachusetts ultimately proved to be a massive political stunt - and only enacted because he wished to suggest that he would be “tough on immigration”, despite the fact that those individuals were all asylum seekers who were in the US legally. None of this had any bearing on actual immigration, and nor did it accomplish anything substantive nor humane.
Americans have got to get to the point where they a) recognize that the privilege they enjoy as citizens can and should be shared with others, and b) that their economy benefits significantly from migrant workers, and that it’s not appropriate to punish people who arrive in the US wanting to work, purely because they want to share in the privilege you enjoy.
More bluntly, they’re willing to work their butts off to get through effort what you have by accident of birth. Who deserves it more, do you think? You’re not going to stop immigration, so you may as well at least make it a humane process, and stop vilifying people just trying to improve their lives.
As I said elsewhere even Reagan had said he thought that open borders was the dream (remember his spech on immigration? The "shining beacon on the hill?")
Illegals won't vote due to the threat of deportation. And it's not non-residents, it's non-citizen residents, and it's something every western nation does. It's actually a net benefit for localities.
And again, leviticus 19:34:
"The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God"
Why is it that Dems are more true to the Bible than the GOP? Hmm? As a lifelong Republican, I switched because you guys decided that fascism and bigotry were the way to go.
The 16 states that will give driver's licenses to unauthorized immigrants also require an applicant provide certain documentation, such as a foreign birth certificate, foreign passport, or consular card and evidence of current residency in the state. How many migrant workers have that sort of thing on hand? Hmmm? Do you ever think things through or just have a knee jerk reaction to what Tucker Carlson tells you to think?
Since we've gone off on a tangent about illegal immigrants, let's give you a bit of reality:
You have to consider it a question of economic diffusion: people are far more likely to migrate from a poor country to a wealthy one in order to improve their standards of living. Thus, until such time as South American nations become closer in parity to the United States in terms of income and generation of wealth, you’re going to find that people want to move from poor countries with negative economic prospects to the United States. It’s not for nothing that you have far fewer immigrants coming in from Europe and other developed nations than you do for the poorer ones.
Realistically, you could slow or stop immigration levels simply be prosecuting American employers illegally hiring migrant workers: if employment opportunities dry up, so too will the flood of people trying to obtain them. However, certain American industries are actually dependent on migrant labor. The state of Georgia tried to ban migrant workers, and guess what happened?:
The Law Of Unintended Consequences: Georgia's Immigration Law Backfires
Although many Americans believe immigrants “steal” our jobs and push down our wages, economists find little evidence of that.
Bit of an oops, really: turns out that if you don’t have migrant workers in agriculture, construction, hospitality…state economies struggle, and in some cases, collapse outright, with billions in lost industry. Not exactly profitable to the US economy, is it? The bigger irony, of course, is that the states most dependent on migrant labor are frequently rural Republican states. The ones who complain the most about immigrants are the ones who are dependent on them.
That said…realistically, you don’t want to stop immigration: it’s a net benefit to the United States, on a huge level. Immigrants are far more likely to work, and will often accept lower wages. They’re far more likely to create new businesses. As the National Academy of Sciences determined back in 2015:
The high employment levels for the least educated immigrants indicate that employer demand for low-skilled labor remains high. There are still many jobs in the United States for low-skilled workers (Lockard and Wolf, 2012). Among the important reasons cited for this high demand have been the substantial shrinkage since 1990 of the U.S.-born, younger, less-skilled working-age population (those who are native born, ages 25-44, and with educational attainment of a high school diploma or less), owing to the aging of Baby Boomers; higher educational attainment among the U.S.-born; and a fertility rate below the replacement rate for the U.S.-born…. In other words, immigrants appear to be taking low-skilled jobs that natives are either not available or unwilling to take.
What needs to happen is that politicians in the United States need to stop using immigrants as an opportunity to grab votes. Ron DeSantis’ rather brazen act of transporting (in what was potentially an illegal act!) migrants to Massachusetts ultimately proved to be a massive political stunt - and only enacted because he wished to suggest that he would be “tough on immigration”, despite the fact that those individuals were all asylum seekers who were in the US legally. None of this had any bearing on actual immigration, and nor did it accomplish anything substantive nor humane.
Americans have got to get to the point where they a) recognize that the privilege they enjoy as citizens can and should be shared with others, and b) that their economy benefits significantly from migrant workers, and that it’s not appropriate to punish people who arrive in the US wanting to work, purely because they want to share in the privilege you enjoy.
More bluntly, they’re willing to work their butts off to get through effort what you have by accident of birth. Who deserves it more, do you think? You’re not going to stop immigration, so you may as well at least make it a humane process, and stop vilifying people just trying to improve their lives.
As I said elsewhere even Reagan had said he thought that open borders was the dream (remember his spech on immigration? The "shining beacon on the hill?")
Do I think things through? Why yes. Do you ever not parrot what you're told?
Which is all your screed is, regurgitated talking points.
Illegals do indeed vote in locales that are sanctuary jurisdictions (Takoma Park, Maryland is one, as is Greenbelt, Maryland).
You also conflate Reagan's stand on legal immigration with the typical current Progressive practice of not differentiating between that and illegal immigration. There is a difference no matter what you wish to be true or no matter how much you try to redefine terms.
Last edited by North Beach Person; 04-18-2024 at 12:11 PM..
nor did it accomplish anything substantive nor humane.
I would love humane immigration, and the best way to do that is to STOP illegal immigration where women sell their bodies, children are divided from families, and people are dumped in cities that aren't equipped to take care of them.
Shame on anyone who looks at this "system" and blames those of us who see the clear connection between our government tolerating and at times promoting this uncontrolled and horrible way of letting people into our country and the sex slavery, drug trafficking, and child abuse, and avoidable deaths that come directly from it.
There is ZERO reason for it. We can secure the border, let in the qualified and willing workers we need, and make it so these individuals are on the path to citizenship, and rights like voting, from the start.
It isn't a left/right DEM/GOP argument. It is a basic human rights argument and both sides consistently fail the test. That is one thing I agree with you on, nobody wants to fix this problem because BOTH sides benefit from having a crisis and trying to sell it to their political base.......which is a garbage way to treat people, both citizens of this country, and international people who wish to move here.
both sides consistently fail the test. That is one thing I agree with you on, nobody wants to fix this problem because BOTH sides benefit from having a crisis and trying to sell it to their political base
Eh. There was significant bipartisan legislation out of the Senate just this year to do exactly what you say - decrease illegal immigration and increase legal immigration - that had a very good chance of passing up until Donald Trump went out of his way to scuttle the deal so he wouldn't lose the ability to run on the issue. The last time we were similarly close to significant, bipartisan reforms was back w/the Gang of Eight and once again the bill died because of Republican leadership opposition (Boehner, in that case, refusing to even allow a vote in the House after it overwhelmingly passed the Senate).
There really isn't a "BOTH sides" to this; there's Republicans selling fear of caravans and MS13 every November and there's Republicans standing in the way of reforms the other 11 months a year so they don't lose the ability to sell fear again the following November. On the other side, I'm not sure what you think Democrats gain politically by having the border be all effed up. Immigration has clearly proven to be a liability for the party, which is surely one reason why Obama and Biden both pushed for reform.
Eh. There was significant bipartisan legislation out of the Senate just this year to do exactly what you say - decrease illegal immigration and increase legal immigration - that had a very good chance of passing up until Donald Trump went out of his way to scuttle the deal so he wouldn't lose the ability to run on the issue. The last time we were similarly close to significant, bipartisan reforms was back w/the Gang of Eight and once again the bill died because of Republican leadership opposition (Boehner, in that case, refusing to even allow a vote in the House after it overwhelmingly passed the Senate).
There really isn't a "BOTH sides" to this; there's Republicans selling fear of caravans and MS13 every November and there's Republicans standing in the way of reforms the other 11 months a year so they don't lose the ability to sell fear again the following November. On the other side, I'm not sure what you think Democrats gain politically by having the border be all effed up. Immigration has clearly proven to be a liability for the party, which is surely one reason why Obama and Biden both pushed for reform.
The bill had $60B included for Ukraine.
It wasn't a "border bill" it was a combo bill trying to sneak through more money for funding a war that is killing thousands (yes, I oppose the US propping up Ukraine just so more people die before the inevitable happens.)
And THERE is your Dem. crap part of the equation. Why put irrelevant non-immigration components into the bill? If they, or anyone else, really cared about the immigration crisis, they could have put forth a clean bill to address it. They did not. Maybe next time, right?
That's interesting... The Taxpayers of Maryland are willing to pick up the Tab for Illegals to get health insurance.
How nice...
Especially when there are Millions of Americans who go 'without health insurance' because they fall into the Obama Crack Slot (too little for Obama care, too much for Medicaid).
Look for subsidies in a couple years. The budget is a mess this year, personal income tax receipts are down, as an example, and no one seems to know why. Sales tax receipts are down, although that may be explainable; people have cut back on discretionary spending, which often generates sales tax, to afford necessities.
"no one seems to know why"
Anyone with a brain does.
Maybe some people have had enough and are moving OUT of the state as soon as they can, like I did.
I know PLENTY of ex Marylander's here and see many cars with MD decals and local tags.
" Maryland Senate passes bill to allow illegal......."
"The Taxpayers of Maryland are willing to pick up the Tab for Illegals to get health insurance."
Just because the senate passes something does NOT mean the taxpayers agree with it.
Wait until the next election.
And what will happen differently then?
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