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Companies move overseas to get away from AMERICAN workers, not union workers. No American worker, union or non-union can work cheap enough to satisfy the businessman who sends his work overseas.
In many cases companies moved to the South to get away from unions and then shipped the jobs overseas anyway. Such as the furniture industry which moved from Michigan to Carolina and has now moved to China.
Lay-offs are the nature of big-time construction work, when a job is done the contractor lays off. The union worker is paid more and gets help finding a job from the union. And as in any endeavor talent chases money, the better workers gravitate to the higher pay and better conditions--union work. Non-union workers come banging on the doors of union apprenticeships but I never saw a union guy say "hey, I think I'd prefer working for less money and worse conditions."
Because I was a union construction worker I retired at 55 with a pension that pays me MORE than working 40 hours a week at Chicago money. I'm open to arguments as to how that's a bad thing for me.
You retired at 55 with a pension that pays more than working forty hours a week at Chicago money. That is great for you but I hope for your sake your pension doesn't get taken away down the road. Ask the airline pilots who retired at 60 then got 150 thousand a year till they die how their pensions look now....they are gone. Airlines went bankrupt or changed the CBA and as a result say goodbye to the pensions that all of those people believed they would always have. Just because you have one right now doesn't mean it will be there later. Unions get to greedy, ask for too much (just like the pilots did) they strike, win, then get layed off or loosed their pension because compainies cannot afford the costs of the agreement. It happens every time. Look at Comair, American airlines, etc. Congrats for working till 55 then getting a pension for possibly longer than you were even an employee. That is why jobs go overseas. It seems to me that the majority of the companies that do move overseas are ones with unions...don't think that is a just a coincidence. Unions are outdated and cause nothing but gridlock...."management is out to get us" if that is the case then why doesn't every company have a union...with that mentality they are probably all getting the shaft from their companies....they better get a union. I'm all for trying to earn the most possible but when it gets to the point that people bolting together things that a person in highschool could do and are asking for fifty to eighty thousand dollars to do it then that is ridiculous. It drives up car prices, home prices, and labor costs and one of three things happens, company goes out of buisness, workers get laid off, company moves overseas. Congrats on your pension but just as state workers in ky now are finding out their is no guarantee that it will always be there for you.
Sandman---My pension is controlled by the union, not by a company. And the money is already in hand as the contractors (hundreds of them) must pay the benefits in on a weekly basis just as they must pay the hands on a weekly basis. Our pension is not dependent on a single employer nor is it controlled by one. And thanks to scandals in the 1970s union pensions have much tighter rules than private ones and are scrupulously overseen by Federal watchdogs. So a union controlled pension is as safe as one can be. Our pension is fully vested, growing and run very conservatively, I'm not worried.
Now me, I don't put any limits on what kind of money a person should make, I figure a fella that hangs doors on Toyotas or makes my latte at Starbucks is as worthy of making good maney as anyone else. But then I value hard work for it's own sake, something many people say they do but actually don't. Note too that the argument that if guy A's high wages are "pushing up prices" the same argument can be made about YOUR pay Sandman. If YOU make good money you're hurting your employer?
In any event your attitude that people doing certain work or with a limited education aren't worthy of good pay is classism at it's worse and betrays a sense of entitlement on your part.
And I think you're naive to think unions are "no longer needed". Human nature hasn't changed and employers and businessmen are just as greedy, cruel and corrupt as ever, it's just that there are controls on them now. Take away those controls and you'll be back to the days of Charles Dickens.
Sandman---My pension is controlled by the union, not by a company. And the money is already in hand as the contractors (hundreds of them) must pay the benefits in on a weekly basis just as they must pay the hands on a weekly basis. Our pension is not dependent on a single employer nor is it controlled by one. And thanks to scandals in the 1970s union pensions have much tighter rules than private ones and are scrupulously overseen by Federal watchdogs. So a union controlled pension is as safe as one can be. Our pension is fully vested, growing and run very conservatively, I'm not worried.
Now me, I don't put any limits on what kind of money a person should make, I figure a fella that hangs doors on Toyotas or makes my latte at Starbucks is as worthy of making good maney as anyone else. But then I value hard work for it's own sake, something many people say they do but actually don't. Note too that the argument that if guy A's high wages are "pushing up prices" the same argument can be made about YOUR pay Sandman. If YOU make good money you're hurting your employer?
In any event your attitude that people doing certain work or with a limited education aren't worthy of good pay is classism at it's worse and betrays a sense of entitlement on your part.
And I think you're naive to think unions are "no longer needed". Human nature hasn't changed and employers and businessmen are just as greedy, cruel and corrupt as ever, it's just that there are controls on them now. Take away those controls and you'll be back to the days of Charles Dickens.
A few things....First there is a major difference in my wages being high and huring my employer. My employer hired me and offered me a salary that they decided upon already accounting for factors such as labor costs and how the overall salary would effect the bottom line of the company. If they couldn't afford that then they wouldn't have offered me the salary when offered the job. Someone who is hired by a union on the other hand is hired and paid by what the union dictates is the fair rate for the job. If the company can't afford it or doesn't agree with the pay rate they face a strike. The unions collective bargaining agreement dicates pay not the employer. So with that in mind I am certainly not hurting my employer. If I don't feel I am being paid what is deserved I ask for a raise..if I don't get that then I look for another employer who will pay that price. A union worker must do this through a union. If the employer doesn't agree with the wage asked for a strike occurs, the buisness hurts, eventually a middle ground is met and the new wage is dictated to the buisness for work to start again. The employer had no plans to raise pay as it would hurt the bottom line but then a strke occured, pay was raised and shocker...bankruptcy, lay offs or another round of negotiations because the company can't survive paying a wage to people that keep asking for more and more. I am all for people getting paid as much as the can but with some realistic limits. How can it be justified that someone on an assembly line gets paid as much or more than a teacher or paramedic....things that take a great deal of training and resources to do. People in car plants make excellent livings and all the power to them...my issue is when they decide to get greedy and ask for even more. At what point does it stop. Do assembly line workers eventually make six figures? If that's the case why did I waste over one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in education in order to make a better living for myself. I have no sence of entitlement....I went to school for years to do what I do and worked ninety hour + weeks for quite a while to be where I am. I am glad that the unions helped you out, and I am glad that they help out others but they have gotten out of hand and not changed with the economy. How do you feel about getting a nice pension and having to be paid for a longer time then you possibly may have worked for that company? This thread has gotten way off base and I am sorry for contributing to that but unions drive me crazy. If all people are as greedy as you say then why don't all buisnesses have them, with your theory we that don't have them must all be getting the shaft from our employers.
I preger the cities of KY, mainly Louisville and Covington. However, the rural beauty of EKY is much nicer. WKY doesn't feel like the same state. It reminds me more of Arkansas or TN.
I preger the cities of KY, mainly Louisville and Covington. However, the rural beauty of EKY is much nicer. WKY doesn't feel like the same state. It reminds me more of Arkansas or TN.
Western KY is not the same state, it's a different state ... at least when you call Frankfort they've never heard if it.
Folk in the JP know that most people east of the LBL have no clue about this end of the state.
Try this link for a start on understanding the subtle difference between Western Kentucky culture and Eastern Kentucky culture.
It may not be possible to explain without offending someone. It also may not be possible to explain in a short format. It's very subtle and generations deep. Fascinating study if you've a liking for cultural studies... and for the record, I like both sets of folks.
that is a little odd because isnt if you head into Eastern Ky. doesnt the population decrease? here where i live in indiana the price of fuel increases in rural areas but ofcourse i live in indiana and not kentucky so things might be different down there.
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E.Ky has cheaper gas
