The North Idaho Front Porch (Hayden, Sandpoint: donations, resale, development)

[Clark Fork Fantast]

Congrats from me, too, Publius! It's wonderful to read good news. And it will be such an exciting time for you (and for Don!). Since we went through the same process, I may be able to contribute with a tip or two! (Defensible space being one of them...)

[Publius4]

Thank you CFF! What do you mean by defensible space? Defense from fires? (Pardon my ignorance )

[Cnynrat]

Originally Posted by Publius4

Thank you CFF! What do you mean by defensible space? Defense from fires? (Pardon my ignorance )

That's right, CFF is talking about making your property defensible from wildfires. Here's a link with some great information from the Idaho Firewise site: Defensible Space

Don't think you mentioned how big your property is, but if it's 6 acres or more you might consider getting a Forest Management Plan put in place. The first step in that process is having a local forester to come out to look over the property. We found that to be a very helpful learning experience, and we got some great advice about mitigating wildfire risk on our place in Sagle.

Congrats on becoming an Idaho land owner BTW!

Dave

[Publius4]

Originally Posted by Cnynrat

That's right, CFF is talking about making your property defensible from wildfires. Here's a link with some great information from the Idaho Firewise site: Defensible Space

Don't think you mentioned how big your property is, but if it's 6 acres or more you might consider getting a Forest Management Plan put in place. The first step in that process is having a local forester to come out to look over the property. We found that to be a very helpful learning experience, and we got some great advice about mitigating wildfire risk on our place in Sagle.

Congrats on becoming an Idaho land owner BTW!

Dave

Thanks Dave. With the way things are this summer, that seems like sound advice.

[sierra don]

Originally Posted by Publius4

Thanks Don. I hope the repairs aren't too extensive on your new place. When do you think you're moving up here? I could use some aerial shots of my new property.

Hi Publius4,

Repairs should not be too bad, the current owner needs to put ventilation in the attic, under the house, vent the dryer to the outside (currently vents under the house, not a good idea), replace some sub-floor plywood (dry rot) and a few other minor things. The stuff listed are the worst of it all.

Might be back up there in Sept. for the final walk thru.

We are doing a rent back to the owner for at least a month, maybe more if he needs it.

I'd be glad get some aerial video of your property for ya, no problem at all.

I'll send you a PM a bit later and we can connect through that rather than discuss it over forum.

-Don

[Publius4]

Sounds good.

[Clark Fork Fantast]

Originally Posted by Publius4

Thank you CFF! What do you mean by defensible space? Defense from fires? (Pardon my ignorance )

Yep, defensible space is clearly defined by the county, so when you apply for a building permit, they will probably ask you to sign a defensible space declaration. That's at least what they do in Bonner County. It's very similar to what Banjomike described in another thread, with a treeless perimeter around the house. We're actually having that done this fall. I hope it's soon enough....

[banjomike]

Originally Posted by Clark Fork Fantast

Yep, defensible space is clearly defined by the county, so when you apply for a building permit, they will probably ask you to sign a defensible space declaration. That's at least what they do in Bonner County. It's very similar to what Banjomike described in another thread, with a treeless perimeter around the house. We're actually having that done this fall. I hope it's soon enough....

That's interesting, CFF. What's in the defensible space declaration? It sounds like the declaration is an option; it this true? If so, I presume the county won't guarantee it will defend a property from fire if one is not signed.

There are lots of ways of defense against wildfire. Our ranch's cabin is very close to a timbered slope, but we drilled a well as a means of defense. Until then, we depended on a good spring that lies uphill from the cabin for our domestic water supply. The spring has never run dry in a drought, and years ago, my father dug a watering pond for livestock as an overflow, with a drainage he cut that runs sideways to the lay of the land, allowing the runoff to join a neighbor's runoff. The pair combine to form a creek that flows year round and it drains into a much larger creek.

Over the past 10 years, though, the spring's output has definitely decreased a lot. What was once a reliable stock pond is now often marshy, and sometimes, almost dry. The well was dug for the livestock, not us. Ironically, opening up the pond impoundment to allow the drainage to go where gravity directs it increased our cabin's defensibility. During the years most dry, nothing is marshy, but all the soil is damp, even if it's almost dry on the surface and not at all muddy. All we had to do was make a diversion gate, so we can allow the water to go where it will when it's dry, and channel it when it's a wetter year.

Nature always has a say-so. When Dad bulldozed out a hollow for the pond 60 years or more ago, the location of our present cabin was wide open and naturally pretty fire safe. Once the pond was there, a family of beavers found it after the water had allowed the quaking aspen to move in and take root. Quakies love water, and beaver love quakies. We battled the beavers off and on for many years, but in the end, they won.

They ate all the young aspen and moved out on their own. The area that had been once open, then forested, and then open again was all done by nature, not us. When we built our present cabin, all that was left of the new forest were a few old aspens that had been there all along, and they were all out of our defense zone. But they still shade the cabin, as they are all mature. Trees don't have to be close to be shady.

Our major fire defense are our saddle horses. They have about 60 acres of pasturage, and they keep everything that can burn pretty well trimmed close to the ground. Our pine stands are further uphill, and they have been logged 3 times, so while there are plenty of trees, there's also plenty of open space as well. The last logging provided most of the logs we built the cabin from; the loggers go more wood out of the deal than we did, but we got all the finished lumber we needed, with plenty to spare, as the loggers provided a lumber saw on site as part of the deal.

They strapped the lumber, and we air-dried it under cover for 2 years before we began using it to build with. The loggers made enough money from the trees they cut to make it profitable for them, and the cabin construction cost us next to nothing, as we already had electricity run to the place and a septic tank that had both been done long before. Bingham county doesn't require a yearly septic renewal so far, and our property is still quite remote in comparison to yours.

While one of our neighbors is very close- we share a fence line with only about 1/2 acre between our houses, the other is 160 acres to the south, on the edge of our other fence line. All our neighbors come from one family, and we've all known each other for close to 100 years now. Both families are now 3 generations in on both places.

That's the 'new' part of our ranch. The old part stretches back 50 years farther into the past. That ground was mostly homesteaded. Back then, if a person built a 10x20 foot 'permanent' dwelling, plowed or fenced part of the land, and 80 acres were free and clear after 2 years of continuous occupancy. 2 generations of my family created that ranch, 80 acres at a time, and dragged one hammered cabin built on skids to pieces before they were done.

Living through the winters up there required the help of a big family. Those who were homesteading completely relied on their parents and many siblings driving teams pulling sleds up to the mountains to keep them alive.

Even today, with snow machines and everything, spending a full winter as far up as our place is remains a daunting challenge.
The old-timers did it by creating a community up there that were all young, fit, used to very hard physical work, and were completely reliant on each other in emergencies.

These days, few of us ever get to know each other as intimately and completely as those folks. Living in deep isolation for about 6 months a year would be even harder today than it was back then, I believe. Those ancestors all wanted to be among other people, not separated away from them.

They weren't looking for escape. What they wanted was free land, something that was an impossibility for most all of them until they came to Idaho. I'm pretty sure that if my family tree had a few golden roots, they would have ended up where you are now, CFF. A person would have to be crazy to pass up California for Idaho back then.

[Shaner]

Finally ran into Javatom. He walked up and said something like, "Are you Shaner from the forums?" Threw me off but it was awesome to meet another member

[Clark Fork Fantast]

Originally Posted by banjomike

That's interesting, CFF. What's in the defensible space declaration? It sounds like the declaration is an option; it this true? If so, I presume the county won't guarantee it will defend a property from fire if one is not signed.

[snip]

These days, few of us ever get to know each other as intimately and completely as those folks. Living in deep isolation for about 6 months a year would be even harder today than it was back then, I believe. Those ancestors all wanted to be among other people, not separated away from them.

They weren't looking for escape. What they wanted was free land, something that was an impossibility for most all of them until they came to Idaho. I'm pretty sure that if my family tree had a few golden roots, they would have ended up where you are now, CFF. A person would have to be crazy to pass up California for Idaho back then.

(1) Now this is 7 years ago, so I'm not all that confident that I'm presenting it correctly, but I remember being told about the requirement for a defensible space being part of the building permit--and I also remember being given a brochure with the definitions (which is somewhere in our files), and just signing a copy of the brochure in good faith!

(2) Yes, that's the irony of it. We love to imagine the pioneers wanting to get away from it all. Well, some did, like the mountain men, and wagonloads of people persecuted for their religion. But most of them wanted to bring it all with them! Law and order, schools, church socials, everything! We're the strange ones, wanting a life off the grid, and no views of any neighbors!

Even in the late '70s when I arrived in CA, it was the Golden Opportunity state. And it was pretty cool! I don't regret coming here. But oh, how things have changed...