Greenville infrastructure n growth (Rock Hill, Clemson: buy, taxes, living in)

[LakeMan45]

Originally Posted by NDL

For 38 years I lived in Manhattan's shadow; I now live in Charlotte's suburbs.

I take a lot of heat for saying that Greenville County's infrastructure isn't up to snuff - my chief complaint about the area.

Greenville's dining scene is a lot more impressive than CLT, in my view: CLT has a lot of fine restaurants, and a lot of fast food chains, with not enough in between.

Greenville boasts an astoundingly - given her size - diverse dining scene - various cuisines are represented, at all price points; downtown GVL is walkable, it's a destination, and GVL's parks are wonderful.

Geographically, GVL is located near several small, charming, mountain towns.

The Upstate gets a nice taste of the winter, without having to deal with the hassles of snow: nights might dip into the upper 20's, but daytime temps are high 30's, low to mid 40's.

To anyone interested in GVL or CLT, I would suggest living near places of employment, as the infrastructure isn't where it ought to be.

I may misunderstand your position.

Are you saying despite all the positives you mentioned about Greenville, you decided to live in the more populated Charlotte area even though you say the Charlotte infrastructure is not up to snuff as well?

I would have thought the dining scene would be better in Charlotte because it is bigger and there are more options. If dining and infrastructure in Charlotte are not advantages, what attracted you to Charlotte over Greenville?

It is easier to live close to work in Greenville than Charleston if getting bang for your buck on housing is a priority.

[NDL]

Originally Posted by LakeMan45

I may misunderstand your position.

Are you saying despite all the positives you mentioned about Greenville, you decided to live in the more populated Charlotte area even though you say the Charlotte infrastructure is not up to snuff as well?

I would have thought the dining scene would be better in Charlotte because it is bigger and there are more options. If dining and infrastructure in Charlotte are not advantages, what attracted you to Charlotte over Greenville?

It is easier to live close to work in Greenville than Charleston if getting bang for your buck on housing is a priority.

I resettled in the Charlotte area well over a decade ago, at a time when the job market in Charlotte was more diverse; as time wears on, I find myself preferring the Greenville area - for the reasons that I listed, in addition to what I see are Greenville's geographical advantages: the GVL area abounds in natural beauty.

***

For me, Charlotte's food scene is a disappointment, mainly because the area lacks a western European influence in her food markets/bakeries - of which there are few. Charlotte has a lot of fine restaurants, and a lot of inexpensive chain restaurants, but not enough in between. The Greenville area has a few western European (Italian) bakeries and markets, with more to come. Greenville also offers fantastic Mediterranean options. And Stax Omega is, by far, my favorite diner in the South

[MovingFromMN0]

Greenville having so many manufacturing & engineering businesses ought to have infrastructure to support that otherwise businesses will move out / slow down.
Also with more people finding it attractive option to move to, roads n highways should get updated. No brainer ..
Is it failing to keep up with the demand.
Up here in twin cities, it used to take me 1 hour to commute 30 miles on 494 during peak hours. Same commute will take me about 35 minutes during non-peak hours. This was through busiest part from south of metro to NW.
Of course twin cities is pretty streched out but some of the inner roards are 2 lanes bothways.

[USNRET04]

Originally Posted by MovingFromMN0

Greenville having so many manufacturing & engineering businesses ought to have infrastructure to support that otherwise businesses will move out / slow down.
Also with more people finding it attractive option to move to, roads n highways should get updated. No brainer ..
Is it failing to keep up with the demand.
Up here in twin cities, it used to take me 1 hour to commute 30 miles on 494 during peak hours. Same commute will take me about 35 minutes during non-peak hours. This was through busiest part from south of metro to NW.
Of course twin cities is pretty streched out but some of the inner roards are 2 lanes bothways.

From your post history, it looks like you have been trying to escape MN traffic by relocating since 2016. Apparently, your move to ATL didn't come to fruition.

I'm not aware of any manufacturing that has moved in then out due to "infrastructure". If a company decides to relocate to the Upstate, they do extensive research before coming. They are fully aware of the "infrastructure" pros and cons before spending tens of millions to relocate.

From your original post, Greenville has everything you seek. Greenville has a "small town" feel compared to Charlotte. Simpsonville even more of a small town feel. You will be hard pressed to find better. But due to that, the area is growing rapidly and is having trouble keeping up with that growth.

I drive 20 miles to work every day from Simpsonville and rarely have issues. I know how and when to avoid congestion if I'm going out to do activities after work and am pretty successful at that. With yourself being able to work remote, rush hour traffic won't be a concern for you.

Good luck with your move this coming summer.

[NDL]

Originally Posted by MovingFromMN0

Greenville having so many manufacturing & engineering businesses ought to have infrastructure to support that otherwise businesses will move out / slow down.
Also with more people finding it attractive option to move to, roads n highways should get updated. No brainer ..
Is it failing to keep up with the demand.
Up here in twin cities, it used to take me 1 hour to commute 30 miles on 494 during peak hours. Same commute will take me about 35 minutes during non-peak hours. This was through busiest part from south of metro to NW.
Of course twin cities is pretty streched out but some of the inner roards are 2 lanes bothways.

To the issue you speak of, the infrastructure here is a non issue.

First, our highways are world class. Second, we're in a geographically superior location.

I take a bit of a knee jerk reaction when it comes to road building/expansion, as our area is rapidly growing, and I don't want to ever see Atlanta like levels of traffic here. As it stands, I avoid Woodruff at all costs, and I know of others who do the same.

I have gotten frustrated with the street signage in Greenville County, as I am still unfamiliar with portions of it, and I do see it as being poor.

On the plus side, the City of Greenville is very smart when it comes to planning.

[MovingFromMN0]

@USNRET04, I'd say trying to escape MN weather & not traffic. Traffic here isn't an issue for me. May be my post sounded like otherwise but I meant although twin cities being spread out, getting from one side to another side isn't bad at all with or without traffic & construction.

@NDL Thanks for your response. Good to know that the city is good at planning.

[LakeMan45]

Originally Posted by NDL

To the issue you speak of, the infrastructure here is a non issue.

First, our highways are world class. Second, we're in a geographically superior location.

I take a bit of a knee jerk reaction when it comes to road building/expansion, as our area is rapidly growing, and I don't want to ever see Atlanta like levels of traffic here. As it stands, I avoid Woodruff at all costs, and I know of others who do the same.

I have gotten frustrated with the street signage in Greenville County, as I am still unfamiliar with portions of it, and I do see it as being poor.

On the plus side, the City of Greenville is very smart when it comes to planning.

I'm confused. This post makes it sound like you live in Greenville even though you live in Charlotte.

The quantity of retail on Woodruff Rd is a big reason many people are attracted to Greenville. Woodruff Rd may actually attract more people than the downtown. A pro for Greenville is it is not as big as Charlotte and Atlanta but it still has a lot of stuff. If you want access to all of this stuff in a small area, you do have to accept some traffic congestion. Woodruff Rd traffic on weekdays after rush hour is no big deal.

Unless you can point to metros that have similar population as Greenville but less traffic, your problem seems to be with life in more urban areas, not Greenville's infrastructure specifically.

I'm from a small city. Greenville's traffic seems like it would be worse given the high number of residents, apartment complexes everywhere, thru traffic on I85, business travelers, and downtown tourists. There are a good number of 6 lanes roads which indicates built up infrastructure , not lack of it. Some residents want to reduce some of these to 4 lanes for aestheic purposes. The mayor wants to take down the Church St bridge downtown for what he considers better aesthetics. The Church St Bridge is a good example of good infrastructure and it has been there for a long time.

Greenville also has a toll road that has been there for over 20 years. It runs through a generally undeveloped area.

Traffic in downtown during rush hour is substantial. You make it sound like there are no traffic issues down there.

[The QC]

Originally Posted by LakeMan45

It is strange a topic was created about growth and infrastucture in Greenville but a Charlotte resident randomly does a political and racial demographic comparison of Greenville with Raleigh and Charlotte which ultimately leads to a mention of the Arizona based candidate for president in 1964.

It is not accurate to say Greenville is more southern than a purple metro if Greenville became a red metro due to transplants. We know this because it shifted prior to those deep south states you mentioned.

Why use the geographical word southern if you mean conservative? It looks like a psyop to associate a group of people with the Old South. I think most people in Greenville would say Lincoln is one of the greatest presidents but Greenville is more Old South?

Hey, I am not trying to be argumentative, but I do want to clarify my prior comments. First, I am Southern myself. When I referred to the Greenville area as being more southern than its two NC counterparts, I was not referring to politics. I did suggest that Greenville is probably a bit more conservative. When I said that it is more conservative, I did mean it is more conservative politically. But when I said that it is more southern, I was not referring to politics.

Charlotte and Raleigh areas have experienced large numbers of transplants from the northeast for a number of years. Large numbers of transplants can change an area in a number of ways such as the way the residents of an area drive, experience entertainment, dine out, and talk. It can make an area more fast paced. It can change the culture of an area. Charlotte has experience a bit of a culture change I think. International transplants can effect an even larger change to an area. That is why I said that being less southern in not necessarily a benefit for everyone. It is a personal choice.

Nobody said that Grernville is not growing. But I believe more rapid growth is a more recent phenomenon to Greenville. Many southern cities began experiencing steady growth after WWII. Greenville was one of those cities.

But I stated that Charlotte and Raleigh have experienced explosive growth for a longer time. Charlotte Mecklenburg County grew by over 100k between 1950 and 1960. That growth continued but with slightly less of an increase during the decades from 1960 to 1990. Then in 1990, explosive growth began. And between 1990 and 2000, Mecklenburg County grew by approximately 195k, between 2000-2010, Mecklenburg grew by approximately 225k, and between 2010-2020 it grew by approximately 195k. It grew from 511,433 in 1990 to 1, 115, 482 in 2020. Raleigh and Wake has experienced similar growth.

Greenville County did not experience growth of nearly 70k per decade until 2000. From 2000-2010 and from 2010-2020, Greenville County grew by approximately 70k per decade. So, as I stated earlier, Greenville County has not experience rapid growth for as long as its counterparts. And Greenville County has not experienced the very explosive growth that its counterparts have experienced.

So, Greenville’s explosive growth has been for considerably less time, and Greenville has never experienced the very explosive growth of its counterparts. So, the point is these transplants from other states and in particular from the northeast can dramatically change the culture of a region from more southern to less southern. And, in addition, these transplants can make an area less conservative politically also. And international transplants can effect more dramatic change.

In my opinion, Greenville is in the early stages of this more rapid growth, and it has not had the time to effect large change on Greenville politically or culturally. That is yet to come if the growth continues or ramps up even more.

[LakeMan45]

Greenville is the 38th most populated metro in the country. That doesn't happen without transplants and more transplants than most areas in this big country.

I don't understand how transplants make a place "faster paced". The clock is the same for everybody. Most people in Greenville live busy lives. Most people have to work.

How does the culture in Charlotte differ from Greenville? I worked in Uptown for a few months. It didn't seem different to me other than more tall buildings and traffic.

I think Greenville-Spartanburg is pretty similar to Raleigh-Durham minus the government stuff. It seems like Greenville's downtown has more juice than Raleigh's downtown. I don't recall in my life ever hearing somebody hype Raleigh's downtown. Usually people hype up the Research Triangle Park (even if they don't work at one of those companies), and Duke and UNC (even if they did not attend them). It's kind of sad. If people want to adopt a college, Clemson is a lot more fun with a better setting on a lake, in my view, and Furman is a nicer place to walk than Duke or UNC's campus.

Here's some info from the Greenville city website:

"Several sites in the Upstate are designated foreign trade zone areas, and Greenville boasts the highest level of foreign capital investment per capita in the nation, and is home to more than 250 international firms from 26 nations, including BMW and Michelin"

Even little ol Greenwood, a small town on the edge of the Greenville CSA, has several foreign / international companies to include Fuji Film, Teijin Carbon Fiber, Colgate-Palmolive. Fuji Film recruited Tejin to Greenwood. Tejin's plant is the largest capital investment in Greenwood County's history and Fuji is probably second. Both are Japenese companies. Charlotte's econ dev people would be touting these companies if they located in Charlotte. If they were located in Raleigh, there's a good chance they would be in the Research Triangle Park.

[NDL]

Originally Posted by LakeMan45

I'm confused. This post makes it sound like you live in Greenville even though you live in Charlotte.

I currently live in SC, just outside of Charlotte.

I have friends in western SC; I visit them frequently.

I have lived in both Charlotte and Greenville.

The "our" and "we" refers to the region, (e.g. "Upstate), not to the particular City in which I live.

***

I do agree with your assessment, in that I prefer rural areas than I do cities, but SCDOT is lacking, and I don't think that Greenville, at the County level, is where it ought to be.