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Old 07-01-2023, 07:18 AM
 
Location: In The Mountains
1,193 posts, read 615,484 times
Reputation: 2985

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Hi, my cat of 16 years passed a couple of months ago. About 3 weeks later a friend told me about an older dog (he just turned 10) who's owners could not take care of him anymore. Jack is a Doxiepoo.

Needless to say I adopted him. We both took to each other the very first moments.

I could use advice about triggers that can set him off to growl and show his teeth.

Trigger #1 (which I think I solved): My elderly mom (who has dementia) was feeding him some of her food (I put a stop to that). When I eat he won't beg, only my mom. I put Jack in my bedroom when my Mom eats. I think that solves that problem.

Trigger #2: A lady comes in 3 times a week to clean and watch my Mom to give me respite care (I am my Mom's caregiver). He growls at her (and sometimes bares his teeth) when she first enters the house and also when she leaves. He knows her by now so I don't understand it. She also gives him a treat after she arrives and sits down which he likes.

Other than that, Jack is a loving, smart dog. He tells me when he has to go out to do his business, etc. Because his legs are too short I lift him on the couch. He sleeps with me in bed and I bought him steps that I taught him to use.

He came with a crate which he doesn't use.

Of course it's not good that when Jack growls and bares his teeth. To date he has not bit anyone but has come close. Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 07-01-2023, 08:28 AM
Status: "I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out." (set 2 days ago)
 
35,591 posts, read 17,927,273 times
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He's trying to insert himself just below you as leader of the "pack", and he's placed himself above the caregiver and your mom.

There's really controversial methods of re-establishing pack order, which you can google, but giving him a treat after he's growled at someone he knows (who isn't threatening anyone, and doesn't harm him) is the exact opposite of how to move forward, IMHO.

At the very least he needs to know you are not going to permit him to growl at her, if that means scolding him harshly and putting him away in another room when he does it.
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Old 07-01-2023, 08:49 AM
 
Location: In the north country fair
5,008 posts, read 10,684,206 times
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It seems that your mom has unwittingly caused Jack to be protective of her by giving him high value items that have led him to believe, as ClaraC stated, that he is more than a dog in the household. He clearly understands that this woman is an “outsider” (ie. non-family member) and is protective of his pack member who has lavished him with human food.

You’ve already corrected the human food portion of the equation but it is going to take time for Jack to understand the correction. The next step is to show him that the caregiver is part of the pack.

I think that treats given by the caregiver are a good idea but, as ClaraC stated, they should not be given if Jack growls at the caregiver. A firm “ahah!” will tell Jack that the growling behavior is not acceptable. Then, she can give the treat if/when he corrects.
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Old 07-01-2023, 10:41 AM
 
Location: In The Mountains
1,193 posts, read 615,484 times
Reputation: 2985
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
He's trying to insert himself just below you as leader of the "pack", and he's placed himself above the caregiver and your mom.

There's really controversial methods of re-establishing pack order, which you can google, but giving him a treat after he's growled at someone he knows (who isn't threatening anyone, and doesn't harm him) is the exact opposite of how to move forward, IMHO.

At the very least he needs to know you are not going to permit him to growl at her, if that means scolding him harshly and putting him away in another room when he does it.
Thanks so much, that is very interesting. This is my first rescue as all the other dogs I have owned were puppies when I got them.

I didn't explain myself correctly, so let me explain it right: The girl that helps out yells "bad boy" at him when she first enters the house and Jack growls at her. Then he calms down and starts wagging his tail which is when she gives him a treat.

I will google re-establishing pack order.
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Old 07-01-2023, 10:45 AM
 
Location: In The Mountains
1,193 posts, read 615,484 times
Reputation: 2985
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane View Post
It seems that your mom has unwittingly caused Jack to be protective of her by giving him high value items that have led him to believe, as ClaraC stated, that he is more than a dog in the household. He clearly understands that this woman is an “outsider” (ie. non-family member) and is protective of his pack member who has lavished him with human food.

You’ve already corrected the human food portion of the equation but it is going to take time for Jack to understand the correction. The next step is to show him that the caregiver is part of the pack.

I think that treats given by the caregiver are a good idea but, as ClaraC stated, they should not be given if Jack growls at the caregiver. A firm “ahah!” will tell Jack that the growling behavior is not acceptable. Then, she can give the treat if/when he corrects.
I'm not sure if he is being protective of my mother (who is mostly bed-ridden) or me. I thought he was being protective of me. As I wrote above I didn't explain myself correctly. The caregiver that helps out does yell at Jack when he growls at her and after he calms down (takes less than 1 minute) he starts wagging his tail and starts being good again. Then she gives him a treat.
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Old 07-02-2023, 04:15 PM
 
Location: SW US
2,841 posts, read 3,194,864 times
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So the routine he may have learned is growl, get yelled at, calm down then get a treat. You may want to think about how to break this pattern
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Old 07-05-2023, 07:23 AM
 
Location: In The Mountains
1,193 posts, read 615,484 times
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Originally Posted by Windwalker2 View Post
So the routine he may have learned is growl, get yelled at, calm down then get a treat. You may want to think about how to break this pattern
You're right. He gets yelled at if he growls viciously and stops as soon as I say "bad boy". He stopped getting treats afterward.
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Old 07-11-2023, 11:30 PM
 
4,215 posts, read 4,884,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio60 View Post
I'm not sure if he is being protective of my mother (who is mostly bed-ridden) or me. I thought he was being protective of me. As I wrote above I didn't explain myself correctly. The caregiver that helps out does yell at Jack when he growls at her and after he calms down (takes less than 1 minute) he starts wagging his tail and starts being good again. Then she gives him a treat.
Why is she giving him a treat in the first place? It's unnecessary. This is an old dog with a history that you can only ever partially know. I wouldn't advise the caregiver to yell at Jack that will amp up whatever is going on in his mind, just remove him from the room. Negative reinforcement when it happens (ie put the dog outside/in the laundry etc) is the way to deal with aggression, not tossing a treat when the dog calms down – which after 1 minute or so has passed it's unlikely the dog can even connect the dots. With something like aggression, the dog needs to understand that there is an immediate negative consequence –with the caveat that yelling is rarely the answer unless it is actually attacking a person or other animal – not a reward when he decides to end it.

I was helping someone the other week with an unruly dog that jumps all over people if he smells food. Why does he do that? Because he jumps all over the owner, then sits in front of her and then she gives him a treat. So the dog just follows that pattern to get the reward.

Last edited by BCC_1; 07-11-2023 at 11:41 PM..
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Old 07-13-2023, 10:39 AM
 
Location: In The Mountains
1,193 posts, read 615,484 times
Reputation: 2985
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCC_1 View Post
Why is she giving him a treat in the first place? It's unnecessary. This is an old dog with a history that you can only ever partially know. I wouldn't advise the caregiver to yell at Jack that will amp up whatever is going on in his mind, just remove him from the room. Negative reinforcement when it happens (ie put the dog outside/in the laundry etc) is the way to deal with aggression, not tossing a treat when the dog calms down – which after 1 minute or so has passed it's unlikely the dog can even connect the dots. With something like aggression, the dog needs to understand that there is an immediate negative consequence –with the caveat that yelling is rarely the answer unless it is actually attacking a person or other animal – not a reward when he decides to end it.

I was helping someone the other week with an unruly dog that jumps all over people if he smells food. Why does he do that? Because he jumps all over the owner, then sits in front of her and then she gives him a treat. So the dog just follows that pattern to get the reward.
She stopped giving him treats awhile ago. I hardly give him treats now, only as a snack once a day.

If Jack growls at her when she first arrives I tell him in a gruff sound "bad boy" and he stops. So for an older dog he is learning. That said, I found out more about Jack and his original owner who fed him from her plate which I refuse to do and Jack knows this. I also found out that Jack nipped or bit the previous owner's grandkids, another reason why the previous owner got rid of Jack (the other reason is that the previous owner is sick and couldn't take care of him anymore).

If I didn't rescue him they were going to put Jack to sleep. Jack is a very protective dog and I wish I knew about his history before adopting him. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have adopted him (I probably still would have) but I feel it wasn't right not to tell me.

My concern now is taking him to a groomer to get his nails cut. I can give him a bath, clean his ears and eyes and he doesn't mind that at all.

He has calmed down a lot since I first adopted him and is very lovable and can act very silly.
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Old 07-13-2023, 11:20 AM
 
8,166 posts, read 6,917,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio60 View Post
Thanks so much, that is very interesting. This is my first rescue as all the other dogs I have owned were puppies when I got them.

I didn't explain myself correctly, so let me explain it right: The girl that helps out yells "bad boy" at him when she first enters the house and Jack growls at her. Then he calms down and starts wagging his tail which is when she gives him a treat.

I will google re-establishing pack order.
Some lady comes into his house, yells at him and then he growls at her?
I think I'd probably growl at her, too, to be honest.
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