Cincinnati Streetcars (Findlay, Ada, Lisbon: transfer, neighborhood, construction)

[Cincyfan79]

Does anyone know what the current status of the proposed streetcar plan is? I know that council voted in favor to build it in April of 2008 and that the anti-streetcar issue failed last November. I'm assuming it's a financing issue holding it up???? I really hope this happens, I think with all the other development it would really help Cincy.

[DarkWolf]

Why were they trying to pass a Anti - streetcar bill? makes you wonder , whos really paying

[goyguy]

The controversy isn't over whether Cincinnati needs better mass transit. NO ONE doubts that. The problem lies in the fact that the initial trolley line would serve only a limited area - two miles up one street and down another from downtown. AND...the adjoining community is a neighborhood that's been in steady decline since the 1940's. Megamillion$$$ have already been shoveled into attempts at rejuvenation, with only limited success. (Just this week yet another derelict building went up in flames.) So folks are looking at the project as a "streetcar to nowhere," although the next phase would entail constructing a connector to the university/hospital area and is perceived as more "sensible."
None of this is any news to Cincinnatians obviously, just wanted to spell it out for the trolling rail fan.
It's your typical American "what's in it for me, if nothing don't put it in my taxes" attitude at work, not to mention the shortsighted outlook common in the era of ADD and instant gratification. Light rail to UC is an easier sell than light rail to the armpit community halfway there. People may remember the "heritage trolleys" in Detroit, where the city tried to bring a once-prime downtown street back to life by importing antique streetcars from Lisbon and running them along that street. Folks stayed away in droves and the trolleys are in mothballs. I for one don't see any similarity.

[flash3780]

I just want to know what they're planning to do to fix the bus system. Maps and schedules at bus stops would do wonders. Covered (maybe even heated) bus stops would make a world of difference. Sure would be cheaper than a streetcar.

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by goyguy

The controversy isn't over whether Cincinnati needs better mass transit. NO ONE doubts that. The problem lies in the fact that the initial trolley line would serve only a limited area - two miles up one street and down another from downtown. AND...the adjoining community is a neighborhood that's been in steady decline since the 1940's. Megamillion$$$ have already been shoveled into attempts at rejuvenation, with only limited success. (Just this week yet another derelict building went up in flames.) So folks are looking at the project as a "streetcar to nowhere," although the next phase would entail constructing a connector to the university/hospital area and is perceived as more "sensible."
None of this is any news to Cincinnatians obviously, just wanted to spell it out for the trolling rail fan.
It's your typical American "what's in it for me, if nothing don't put it in my taxes" attitude at work, not to mention the shortsighted outlook common in the era of ADD and instant gratification. Light rail to UC is an easier sell than light rail to the armpit community halfway there. People may remember the "heritage trolleys" in Detroit, where the city tried to bring a once-prime downtown street back to life by importing antique streetcars from Lisbon and running them along that street. Folks stayed away in droves and the trolleys are in mothballs. I for one don't see any similarity.

You're referring to Phase I, not Phase II or III.

You cannot run LRT from downtown to uptown as it would make no sense sense as it is such a short distance. You would need a circulator, such as a streetcar.

To see the benifits to streetcars, we already have proof since we used to have such an extensive system in the past ... how's MLT square, Hyde Park Square, Mt. Adams for examples of NBD's of what we've done with streetcars in the past? M'kay thanks ... next.

Streetcars provide concrete routes that do not change ... Flash3780, I'm assuming that you've never had a 8 month pregnant wife walk 15 minutes in -5º temperatures to downtown, crying because she had to be at work, but Metro decided to change its route at the drop of the dime because of some snow? Or for the hell of it without notice. Now, imagine as a business owner ... How would you feel knowing (since public transit routes are an amenity to your property values) that bus routes could and will change frequently? Would you be okay with this?

[Wilson513]

Public transportation in a city like Cincinnati is just another way of taking money from taxpayers and giving it to other persons who are usually not taxpayers. There is no public commuter transportation system that operates subsidy free, anywhere in the US. Chicago's famous Metra Rail, probably the best used system in the nation, loses $3 for every $1 it gets in passenger fees. So, ever year $500,000,000 is transferred from the taxpaying public to the riders of Metra Rail. Now, many people are willing to support such a transfer of wealth because they don't like the long commutes that would result if Metra Rail did not carry so many passengers. Or, they suppose that commuter rail is always a more ecologically responsible alternative to cars or buses. But, these systems come at an enormous cost and they are not necessarily environmentally friendly. A full passenger train is probably better than 1000 cars, but probably not a whole lot better. And, an empty train returning which we have all seen them do, it is hundreds of times worse. A car stays parked all day. The train runs back and forth with or without a full load of commuters. I have relatives that live in sight of the Metra Rail and I've seen whole trains without a soul on board roaring down the tracks sucking down fuel and wearing out metal and adding to the noise all day long.

So, I wouldn't be so quick to endorse rail commuting or to condemn those who oppose it.

[Cincyfan79]

I agree with you Cincyrise, the biggest advantage of the streetcar (other than moving people) is the re-development that comes with fixed routes. Plus, many people who just occasionally come downtown for an event or dinner won't ride the bus. The streetcar is something you know exactly where it will be and can get to the minute updates on the next arrival.

My understanding is that council decided to go ahead and to the UC/Uptown phase at the same time as the downtown phase??? This makes since because to re-develop the west side/Findlay Market area you need people going through there and right now there is not much call for someone downtown to go up there unless their passing through to go Uptown. Has a date been set for construction?

[Cincyfan79]

Hey Wilson, you have a point with rail service in Cincinnati but I think streetcars are a more sensible alternative. The cost is much cheaper than light rail and IMO it probably would get heavy use in the downtown and uptown areas. I'm downtown all the time and it's pretty much the only area I see full or near full buses, in the burbs they are almost always empty. If we can improve downtown traffic and move people around easier, plus at the same time bring development to "shady" areas, it could be worth it. People around here though are probably going to take time before they just give up driving and use public transportation. Maybe after several years if a streetcar system is successful it could be expanded to Mt Adams/Hyde Park or across the river to Covington/Newport.

As far as public subsidies yeah your going to find that anywhere, we give so much now to the buses who are usually only used by students and those who can't afford a car. It would be nice to add downtown workers and tourists to the list of public transportation users and maybe make it more profitable. I guess it would just be nice to have an alternative method of transportation downtown that could be beneficial to the city.

[Hartwell Girl]

Trolley ride to nowhere for my neighborhood...
Anyway, the City of CIncinnati has a page on their web page to accept donations for the streetcars--even if there is nothing on there to help homeless/food pantry's, keep our recreation centers open or just make a worthless donation to the HUGE budget deficit problem this City has.
Not a streetcar fan, I would be what the Mayor referred to as a "Naysayer"

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by Hartwell Girl

Trolley ride to nowhere for my neighborhood...
Anyway, the City of CIncinnati has a page on their web page to accept donations for the streetcars--even if there is nothing on there to help homeless/food pantry's, keep our recreation centers open or just make a worthless donation to the HUGE budget deficit problem this City has.
Not a streetcar fan, I would be what the Mayor referred to as a "Naysayer"

There is a difference between a city council shelling out billions of dollars while in a deficit and the government doing it, but there's a catch ... it MUST go towards public transit.

Should Cincinnati go for this? Hell yes ... why lay over and die while other metros are going for a piece of the pie.

If you'd rather have the government take this transit cash and move it towards helping the homeless, City-Data is the wrong place to look.

Let us know what kind of response you get! Everybody wants a piece of the pie.