Cincinnati is becoming second fiddle to Columbus (Cleveland, Louisville: live in, club)

[restorationconsultant]

Since this started out as thread about why Cincinnati was losing out to Columbus, might I venture a few facts that business people and polititians "Might' factor in to decisions?

Ciincinnati, according to the 2010 census lost 30,000 in population over the last decade.

Cincinnati has a large under educated, and unskilled workforce. And continues to lose its top talent for other cities.

City policies have decimated Urban neighborhoods and make them less attractive to employers looking to do corporate locations and attract that top talent who want an urban locale.

The city is in SERIOUS financial condition. Salaries are higher than cities 3-4 times their size. The pension system is not in touch with the real world. When was the last time the city let go of someone (other than when they are convicted of a felony)? Employment in this city is "birth to death" regardless of how poorly you do your job and hiring is largely dependent on if you have a relative already employed. When you do retire, you then go to work for the county government which has many of the same problems.

Property values have declined because of things like the VBML and city inspection department that is interested in demonstrating "need' for federal funds for demo, rather than actually caring what happens to neighborhoods. Property values are in the tank and with current policies there is little hope to bring values back. Property tax revenues will continue this downward spiral if we stay on this path.

The impression of Cincinnati by many nationwide (and I travel all across the country in my company) is that it is a "corrupt city" with back room deals made on a regular basis and has been that way for decades?

Cincinnati has little regard for historic preservation.

Why is Newport and Covington turning themselves around while N of Liberty still looks like Detroit? perhaps its all the redtape and roadblocks the city creates.

Cincinnati a 'sanctuary city' that attracts every form of entitlement person. There is a shrinking pool of taxpayers and a growing pool of people in entitlements.

I could go on and on, but the facts are, we need to place the blame where it lies for many of Cincinnati woes and it belongs at the feet of local city government that makes it harder to do business here, or live here.

If you are a corporation you are going to consider all of the above. These days attracting business is a "competitive market" with other cities across the midwest and our city govenment is shooting itself in the foot!

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by restorationconsultant

Since this started out as thread about why Cincinnati was losing out to Columbus, might I venture a few facts that business people and polititians "Might' factor in to decisions?

Ciincinnati, according to the 2010 census lost 30,000 in population over the last decade.

Cincinnati has a large under educated, and unskilled workforce. And continues to lose its top talent for other cities.

City policies have decimated Urban neighborhoods and make them less attractive to employers looking to do corporate locations and attract that top talent who want an urban locale.

The city is in SERIOUS financial condition. Salaries are higher than cities 3-4 times their size. The pension system is not in touch with the real world. When was the last time the city let go of someone (other than when they are convicted of a felony)? Employment in this city is "birth to death" regardless of how poorly you do your job and hiring is largely dependent on if you have a relative already employed. When you do retire, you then go to work for the county government which has many of the same problems.

Property values have declined because of things like the VBML and city inspection department that is interested in demonstrating "need' for federal funds for demo, rather than actually caring what happens to neighborhoods. Property values are in the tank and with current policies there is little hope to bring values back. Property tax revenues will continue this downward spiral if we stay on this path.

The impression of Cincinnati by many nationwide (and I travel all across the country in my company) is that it is a "corrupt city" with back room deals made on a regular basis and has been that way for decades?

Cincinnati has little regard for historic preservation.

Why is Newport and Covington turning themselves around while N of Liberty still looks like Detroit? perhaps its all the redtape and roadblocks the city creates.

Cincinnati a 'sanctuary city' that attracts every form of entitlement person. There is a shrinking pool of taxpayers and a growing pool of people in entitlements.

I could go on and on, but the facts are, we need to place the blame where it lies for many of Cincinnati woes and it belongs at the feet of local city government that makes it harder to do business here, or live here.

If you are a corporation you are going to consider all of the above. These days attracting business is a "competitive market" with other cities across the midwest and our city govenment is shooting itself in the foot!

And all that, which I'm deliberately quoting in its entirety, pales in comparison to the underlying problem--which I won't be surprised to see evidenced right here on this forum--which is that the citizens react with outrage if anyone so much as mentions the things you did. Despite their elephant in-the-room-status. "What, are you saying you want Cincinnati TO FAIL?" "Sure, we have some problems, but THEY'RE MUCH WORSE EVERYWHERE ELSE." "NEGATIVE PEOPLE LIKE YOU are the reason Cincinnati isn't everything it could be."

I could go on and on, but someone else will probably be by shortly to make the point better than I can.

[kjbrill]

Part of the problem may be so many saying look we are building peacocks downtown - see how beautiful they are. And yes, some of them very well are. But the greater problem of the majority of the city continuing to lose population and become further rundown is not being addressed. At the rate things are going Cincinnati may very well rebuild its downtown core residential around a still vibrant CBD core, but overall it will slip down the list of recognized US cities.

[TomJones123]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

But the greater problem of the majority of the city continuing to lose population and become further rundown is not being addressed. At the rate things are going Cincinnati may very well rebuild its downtown core residential around a still vibrant CBD core, but overall it will slip down the list of recognized US cities.

http://www.uc.edu/cdc/urban_database...own_report.pdf

[ram2]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

The state and federal level *could* raise the gas tax to make up for lower revenues, but there's a pretty glaring problem with that. One of the main reasons that gas taxes aren't covering maintenance now is that people are driving less. As gasoline (and taxes on it) prices go up, people automatically drive less. It happened both when gas prices went over $4 and during the recession right up to today. People are simply driving less than they used to, and raising the prices will not bring in the revenue that you are thinking. At best, people will drive even less but the higher prices will allow revenues to stay around the same level, which won't fix the transportation budget problems at all.

ALL transportation is expensive to build and maintain, so rapid/public transit should not be singled out for costs when highways are the exact same. Also, mass transit, if built correctly, CAN make money. It makes money in places all over the world, including the Northeast, so I don't get the point that people absolutely won't ride it. While mass transit has the opportunity to pay for its costs, highways, unless you toll all of them, will never have that opportunity. Roadways have always been a huge money loser.

If people drive less, then road wear will be less and gas taxes will not need to be raised.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by ram2

If people drive less, then road wear will be less and gas taxes will not need to be raised.

True, but that would, at best, mean that things don't change either way. Either you make driving cheap and have more traffic which means higher maintenance and construction costs, or you have driving be more expensive which means for less driving and less maintenance costs, but no money to improve the system. And that's pretty much where alternatives come in.

[jmecklenborg]

Kjbrill, you are absolutely obsessed with population decline as the end-all, be-all measure of a city's vitality. Cincinnati's population has gone down, but the total number of jobs has increased dramatically in that same time period. The West End, home to 50,000 Cincinnatians -- 1/10th of its peak 1950 population -- was demolished in the early 1960s. Those residences were replaced by light industry totaling several thousand jobs. The hospitals have torn down many homes and apartment buildings as they have expanded, but replaced those residences with parking lots and jobs.

Aside from that, the population of ALL US cities that did not expand their borders plummeted dramatically with the appearance of birth control pills, then the legalization of abortion in 1973. Cincinnati's peak 1950 population of 500,000 included at least 100,000 children and probably upwards of 200,000. People are having far fewer children everywhere. Also, retirees don't move to the suburbs -- they often move to Florida or other coastal areas, a phenomenon that did not exist in 1950.

[TomJones123]

And my point is Cincy's "population decline" is highly suspect based on the census being accurate? And what of the Drill Down performed in 2007?

And really, traffic monitoring is moving to C-bus....so. Let em go. States everywhere are downsizing one way or another. I'll take Cincy any day over Columbus. In the scheme of things Cincy has historically been, and will remain to be more important that Columbus.

[unusualfire]

^Don't forget the main Cincinnati newspaper will be printed in Columbus. Insane!!!

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by TomJones123

And my point is Cincy's "population decline" is highly suspect based on the census being accurate? And what of the Drill Down performed in 2007?

And really, traffic monitoring is moving to C-bus....so. Let em go. States everywhere are downsizing one way or another. I'll take Cincy any day over Columbus. In the scheme of things Cincy has historically been, and will remain to be more important that Columbus.

Historically... sure. Now or in the future, that seems unlikely.