Mountain property to build a small cabin (Cheyenne, Laramie: real estate, new home)

[charliebecker]

I'm just starting to look for some land where I can build a small cabin, and basically live off of the land (fish, hunt, garden, etc) I'm looking for something in the mountains (not flat!), trees, some type of reliable water source (lake, river, stream, etc). At first, this would be long weekend trips (from Notheast Colorado) to work on the cabin, but eventually would be my primary residence.

I'm starting my search near the Laramie/Medicine Bow and surrounding areas. I'm looking for THE MOST remote areas possible... I'm completely fine with only ATV access. I'd love to find a 640 acre piece of land, but realistically can probably only afford 200, but don't let that stop your suggestions!

Here's my questions:
1) Do you have any recommendations on websites that list land like this? Everything I've found has only listed a few properties.
2) Where would I get the most bang for the buck? I'd be willing to drive further into Wyoming if I can find more acreage.
3) When do you need to get permits for building a cabin? What's the process for doing this? Where do I find out how to build a cabin "to-code" in Wyoming?

Thanks for your help!

Charlie

[sunsprit]

The combination you seek of mountain land, limited access, year around surface water, growing season, hunting, fishing ... is somewhat unrealistic, but doable.

We looked for a couple of years for a similar type of property, although we wanted it to be accessible enough for weekending horseback riders to enjoy staying there for a few days/weeks, hunters (in season), and the balance of time ... to be able to use it ourselves.

From what we've seen, the best compromise would be in the Laramie Mountain Range, West of Wheatland. You could even look in Albany County for this type/size parcel. Be prepared to see prices in the $4,000 per acre range with a minimum of 80 acres.

There's a lot of pressure/demand for this type of property as a recreational cabin/limited use property from people outside the area. I know of two area realtors with standing "buy" orders from folks with funds readily available to buy such properties, especially if they border public lands.

Access to the parcels with what you list would be problematic, at best, in the winter months, which could be as long a 5-6 months. The further off the beaten path, the more remote, the more difficult the access will be ... and the property cost may not be less.

You'll still need to consider having good enough access to the place for propane delivery, which will be your primary fuel source for heating, power, refrigeration. Unless you intend to set up an independent power station using solar and wind generation with battery back up.

Most of the county areas you'll be in will not have code enforcement, so you can build whatever structure you like (at your own risk, of course). The only limitation will be your common sense and the well/septic permits if you intend to install those items.

Be aware that in Wyoming you must be the owner of surface water rights on your property to be able to use the surface water for any reason, including domestic, or irrigation. If you don't own any surface water rights, you may find yourself at odds with someone who does own them and expects all the water delivered for their use. It may be easier to drill a domestic well (permit from the state engineer) and pump water for your domestic needs (max 25 gpm).

Bear in mind that the downstream "owner" of those surface water rights can not "give" or "allow" you the use of the water ... they must either take their water and put it to beneficial use, or allow it to flow downstream to the other water right holders. The water is "owned" by the State of Wyoming, and is not the water rights holders to give away to anybody else. So, you may have a stream on your property which adds nothing except a visual cosmetic value (and a watering hole for wildlife) ... and leaves you with a burden to not pollute it or alter it in any way.

Of course, you may find that you have a sub-irrigated meadow which will allow you to successfully raise some produce. IMO, you'd best plan on a greenhouse structure for your garden ... to control the growing environment, protect the garden. Don't forget you'll be sharing the area with wild animals that will be highly interested in what you grow. Deer and elk are real good at tearing down your fences to gain access ... and skunks, raccoons, rabbits, and other smaller animals do a good job of eating your garden, too.

You'll find the best way to locate these properties is to directly contact the real estate agents in the areas. Many do not use multi-list, and have exclusive right to sell listings. For the most part, I've found these back country agents to be a pretty inept bunch of agents ... selling a property is "found" money for them. If you do business, that's OK. If you don't, that's OK, too. Someone else will come along to play ....

[jdavid93225]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

Of course, you may find that you have a sub-irrigated meadow which will allow you to successfully raise some produce. IMO, you'd best plan on a greenhouse structure for your garden ... to control the growing environment, protect the garden. Don't forget you'll be sharing the area with wild animals that will be highly interested in what you grow. Deer and elk are real good at tearing down your fences to gain access ... and skunks, raccoons, rabbits, and other smaller animals do a good job of eating your garden, too.

Charlie,
While I was in Cheyenne this summer, I stopped by the Cheyenne Botanic Gardens to see the self sufficient greenhouse they have there. It's a neat structure, and allows for growing of many types of plants that otherwise would not survive in Wyoming. I am planning (eventually) to build something similar on my property near Wheatland, when I move there. I would love to be able to go out into my garden and pick a fresh orange, and in order to do so in Wyoming, a greenhouse is the only way, and it will have to be pretty big.

As for the other considerations mentioned, propane delivery is something that needs to be kept in mind, unless the house is designed and built in such a way that it will store heat energy through the winter and still allow adequate cooling in the summer. I would love to build such a house, but I think the cost to do so will prevent me from being able to. I will probably stick to something a bit more conventional, while employing the most energy efficient components in construction. I am actually looking forward to building a new home that is as efficient as it can be while still being reasonably conventional. I am considering the poured concrete, foam insulated walls with log siding. With that combination, there should be sufficient thermal mass to hold heat in during the winter, but with proper window and ventilation placement, should stay fairly cool in summer, minimizing heating and cooling costs.

By the way, my property is in the area Sunsprit mentioned, in the Laramie Peak area, west of Wheatland. It is at the foot of the mountains, and does have some varied terrain, but it is still fairly flat. It is also desert, with only a limited number of trees on a stand in the middle of the property. It does have a seasonal creek and pond, but I don't have rights to that water, so I will need a domestic well for my purposes. I am hoping to do many of the same things that you have in mind, but don't plan to be entirely self sufficient, unless I need to be (I will at least be on the grid).

[sunsprit]

jdavid ... not only will that greenhouse have to be very big to grow citrus in the area climate, you will also have to bring in a heating system to keep the place from freezing temperatures.

[jdavid93225]

Originally Posted by sunsprit

jdavid ... not only will that greenhouse have to be very big to grow citrus in the area climate, you will also have to bring in a heating system to keep the place from freezing temperatures.

I know that heating will be necessary. As for size, I was thinking maybe dwarf trees to keep them a little bit smaller. One idea that I had was to build a greenhouse within a greenhouse, with things like citrus in the inner section, and the stuff that tolerates colder temperatures in the outer section. I also thought about thermal mass for heat retention, like they use in the greenhouse in Cheyenne that I mentioned earlier. They placed drums of water along the north wall to hold heat through the night. The interior temperature of the greenhouse stays warm enough for most things I would consider growing, and it does so without an external heat source. Of course this is in the middle of Cheyenne, not out in the open like mine will be. One other thought I had would be to build a swimming pool in the same building as the greenhouse, for the thermal mass, but keep the building heated to a minimum temperature as well. Since I have years to plan before I build, I will put a lot of thought into it before I do it.