What is the best small 4WD for exploring Wyo. mountain back roads? (for sale, how much)

[CptnRn]

I'm thinking of getting a vehicle especially suitable for this. In the distant past the best vehicle for this was a Willy's Jeep. Has that changed? What do you recommend?

[WyoNewk]

One of the best I've ever had was probably a Suzuki Samurai. I think it was a 1986. (We got one of the first to arrive in Denver -- off the first train car on the day they arrived.) I also had an '85 Toyota pickup at that time. The advantage of the Samurai was its short wheelbase.

I had actually looked at the same basic Suzuki designed in the early 70s, but at that time I think they only came with a little 2-cylinder engine that produced something like 40 hp, and top speed was about 50. I liked them, but I didn't like the idea of struggling down I-90 for a hundred miles at the minimum speed limit. When I saw the new ones had arrived in Denver, I snatched one up immediately. It was the ragtop model. My wife used it one winter, then my two kids each used it for a couple years. I think the only thing I ever had to fix/replace on it was wiper blades. Unfortunately, they completely changed the body style a couple years after I bought mine, did away with the ragtop and called it a Chevy, so the only ones available now are 20 years old.

For the last decade I've driven the same F250 4x4 PSD w/6-spd manual. It's a great backwoods vehicle but far from a "small" 4x4.

In other words, I can't answer your question but felt like reminiscing.

[sunsprit]

If you're "staying on the mountain back roads" ... then a great little vehicle is the Subaru Forester.

As long as you're not "off roading" onto trails, these have adequate ground clearance and suspension. They will cruise freeway speeds very nicely to get to your "back roads" places, and are very capable AWD vehicles in adverse conditions. They're consistently one of the top ranked vehicles of their class, sturdy, durable, easy to repair, and an all-around good transportation vehicle.

Having put a fair number of miles on a '42 MB and a CJ-6 for totally off-road trails for hunting/fishing/ranch & farm maintenance/touring ... there's no comparison for comfort, convenience, roadworthiness to the Subie's. You just have to remember that it's not an off-road trail vehicle, it's a back-road capable vehicle.

As an alternative for more serious exploration, if you don't mind towing a vehicle to the "back country", a Polaris RZR is sure a nice transportation vehicle once you get off-road.

[jdavid93225]

Well, I'll second the Suzuki Samurai. It's similar to a Jeep Wrangler or CJ, but a little smaller. They make great trail rigs, but they are getting harder to find for sale in good condition. They actually came out as a 1986 model in late 1985, and stayed around until the 1995 model year, when they were discontinued. Back around 1988 or 1989, Consumer Reports did their report on the Samurai, and they claimed it was an unsafe vehicle because it could easily roll over at highway speed. After that report came out, the Samurai basically quit selling, so there weren't very many sold between 1990 and 1995.

Suzuki also came out with the Sidekick model around 1989, and, like the Samurai, it was available as both a softtop and a hardtop. For a year or two, Suzuki also offered the X-90, a two-seat "coupe" based on the Sidekick. Around 1994, the Sidekick became available as a four door model. In the late '90s, it was renamed the Vitara, and eventually, the Grand Vitara when a V-6 engine became available. It was also sold as a Geo/Chevy Tracker until sometime around 2002. Later Suzuki came out with the XL-7, which was basically a stretched Grand Vitara, that offered seating for seven.

For basic back country exploring, the Samurai, Sidekick, or Jeep Wrangler would be a good vehicle. If you are looking for something to tackle some tougher trails, any of the above can be built into a good trail or rockcrawling rig. For something a little roomier, the Jeep Cherokee or Grand Cherokee, Toyota FJ Cruiser or 4Runner, or the newer, 4 door Wrangler could fit the bill.

The advantages to some of the newer vehicles are the safety features, such as anti-lock brakes and air bags, as well as the power to weight ratio. The older Samurais were terribly underpowered and struggled to maintain highway speed with the slightest grade or headwind. This was especially true if they were modified with larger tires and wheels.

Finally, if you're not planning to go "off-road," and only want to stick to maintained dirt roads, then I will second Sunsprit's recommendation of the Subaru. Besides the Forester, you may wish to look at the Outback models. Besides the Subarus, you might also want to look at some of the compact pickups that are available. Toyota pickups have been prized for their off-road-worthiness for many years. I do most of my backcountry exploring in my Chevy Colorado Crew Cab 4x4. In fact, all my travels in Wyoming have been in this truck. It works well for me, especially if I have the kids with me. I have room for the whole family and all our gear (when I pack it correctly), and take it all along when we go on vacation.

[NVDave]

For dirt roads in good condition, the Subie's are tough to beat, especially on fuel economy.

If you're looking to do serious four-wheeling, tho, I'd go with either an older CJ-5 or an older Land Cruiser (FJ-40). To build up a really competent off-road rig, it helps to be pretty handy, as these older machines will likely need some work to keep them going.

If you're not super-handy, then I'd look at the older (late 80's to mid-90's) Toyota SR5 pickups or something like an older Ford F-150 with 4x4, manual tranny and (if you can find one) the 300 inline-six engine.

If you want to haul a bunch of people around with you, eg, a hunting party, you're going to laugh at my next suggestion: a Suburban. Yep, lots of people laugh at the idea of off-roading in a Chevy Suburban - until they've been out into the brush in one. They're fantastically stable vehicles in situations where other, narrower vehicles would be very tippy and giving you an "11" on the Pucker Factor Meter. The problem with the Suburban is that it is (as everyone would expect) a gas-sucking monster, especially if you have the 454 engine in it. But they are simple to work on, they are reliable, and they can handle very serious off-road terrain.

The thing you should remember about real off-roading is that stuff will break. Call Morty and make book on it. And in the rural west, you can get parts for the really common vehicles much easier than you can for the uncommon ones. I'd put the Subarus and Samurai into the "less available" parts category - where I define "readily available" as being able to waltz into my local NAPA or similar generic parts store, ask "Have you got this part?" and they say "Yes, we do" or "It will be here tomorrow morning from Billings." Domestic autos (esp. Ford and Chevy) win on this, closely followed by Toyota (being now the world's biggest auto manufacture helps keep their parts in stock).

The net:net I'd get at here is this: if you want to do really serious off-roading, or even get way out there off the beaten path, I'd strongly recommend becoming pretty handy with the wrenches. Once you do, you can buy cheap older vehicles and have a rig built up just for off-roading and knocking around out in the boonies, you can smash it up and not have to drive it in to work on Monday.

[wyoquilter]

Depending on what type of back roading you want to do, I would also say look at getting a Subaru AWD or 4X4 unless you will be going into areas with lots of large rocks and deep ruts. My DH and I have taken a Ford F150 crew cab and a Chevy crew cab (can't remember the model but it was about the same size as the Ford F150) both of which are 2005+ models and a 1990 Nissan truck into some pretty nasty spots. The main thing is to get a rig that sits pretty good off the ground so that you won't be putting holes in your oil pan or doing other damage to anything else underneath. I would have to say that if you want to keep it small, look into Nissan or Toyota trucks for some good vehicles for really nasty spots.

[swagger]

If you want something you can drive on the street, I have to go with the Jeep Wrangler (CJ/YJ/TJ). The 'zukis are good, too, but they tend to need some modification to turn an "off the shelf" vehicle into a sturdy trail rig. The Jeep will go pretty much anywhere you point it, straight from the factory.

If you're thinking about trailering the rig, the little Polaris buggies (and similar) are fantastic. I've seen those little things - with their tiny little tires - go places I wouldn't dare go in my Jeep.

[ElkHunter]

Got me an old Ford. Does what I expect it to. I've pushed snow that rolled over the hood. But it never let me down. I've even stood it up against a tree up on Walker. Kind of funny. Wife looked at me with big eyes and said, "Ok, what ya going to do now?" We got out. Kept right on truckin.

Just a reliable old truck is all you need.

[jeepejeep]

He wants small. Full size Pickups/SUV's need not apply no matter how good they are. They just don't fit on some trails. Get a Wrangler Rubicon and have a great time!

[jazzlover]

I'm a long-time 4WD owner--for both business and pleasure. I've used them on some of the toughest trails in the Rocky Mountain West. You didn't say whether you were looking for new, late model used, or "old" used. For a truly backcountry trail-capable 4WD, the list of new vehicles is pretty short--the Wrangler Rubicon is probably the most capable "out-of-the-box," but has a pretty shaky reliability record. The Toyota FJ Cruiser is good, reliable, but is not especially small, and gets pretty poor fuel economy. The Nissan Xterra with the off-road package is pretty good, too.

In used vehicles, my top pick is a 1997-2001 Jeep Cherokee (note: NOT a Grand Cherokee--they had a dismal reliability record). The Cherokees were relatively reliable, can be made extremely off-road capable for not a lot of money, and--for a 4WD--get fairly good fuel economy.

Of course, you really need to ask yourself how much you will use it. 4WD's are more mechancially complex, and get worse fuel economy than most vehicles. Within a few years, that latter point will likely make them an impractical vehicle for most people to own unless they absolutely have to have one for their work or where they live.

If mild backcountry roads and inclement weather driving are your main concern, I agree with a Subaru Forester being a great choice. They are very popular in the Rocky Mountain West, so parts are generally readily available for them--even in the smaller towns. I really wish that Subaru would sell the diesel version of the Forester here in the US. It will get 30-50% better highway fuel economy than the gas model--close to 40 mpg. Rumors say it may be sold here starting in the 2011 model year--we can hope.