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Says who, you? Oh, so you think I should hire the guy half asleep to clean my roof (I'm in the market)? I should ask him why he's so tired as if it matters for the job. That is beyond ridiculous. No matter that he might fall off due to being so tired and then sue me. Why in the world do you think this guy's problem should be anybody else's problem I do not know.
I have a 15 month old at home. I never sleep. It's just a fact of my life. I cannot hide the bags under my eyes, but I do not yawn at people talking to me. I keep it together.
It must be nice to be so perfect and not susceptible to typically human foibles such as yawning.
The applicant in question was not woefully unprepared. He yawned during a telephone interview. Your interviewing skills are as flawed as your reading comprehension skills.
Actually, if I were interviewing a candidate for a job for which I was going to give him an excellent salary with good benefits in a environment where he could learn a lot, I would really wonder about the yawning. If the kind of slot I'm interviewing him for doesn't hold his attention, then he doesn't need a job that badly.
Jeez. I really wonder about the people skills of some of the posters on here. Small wonder they can't get a job or keep one.
It must be nice to be so perfect and not susceptible to typically human foibles such as yawning.
Continual yawning in someone's ear is not typical. An inability to hide it while on the phone just speaks to stupidity. He should have just moved the mouth piece away from his mouth while he was yawning, unless he was yawning and talking at the same time, which is ridiculous. And just because the vast majority are not that stupid doesn't mean they are perfect.
Really, this is an example of making your bed and laying in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223
Jeez. I really wonder about the people skills of some of the posters on here. Small wonder they can't get a job or keep one.
What, pray tell, are the fundamentals? There's no training course on work-place etiquette, really. You can get a few helpful hints from books, but they aren't applicable to every situation; common sense isn't common if you've never encountered anything like it to work off of. Some people have honestly never been trained for a formal setting. Plus, different cultures have different expectations of what is "normal" and "appropriate." It took me a long time to figure it out, and it still confuses me a little. Why should I wear a black suit to an interview if it makes me look like I don't know anything about clothes? Why can't I wear colors that flatter my skin tone and shape? The shoulder pads on most traditional blazers make me look too boxy, for example. Plus, I've followed most of the rules and still have not landed a job. I've arrived early, dressed sharply, brought my resume, and sent a follow-up thank-you email, still no job! Did it help? I don't know.
There are actually quite a few training courses in work-place etiquette. I covered many of the fundamentals when I taught business etiquette at our high school's summer enrichment program. We started with greetings and introductions, how to shake hands, and look people in the eye. I covered quite a few topics in the six-week program. Our state also has a job-preparation class as part of the curriculum called Jobs for Mississippi Graduates. They go into every aspect of job hunting as well as how to keep the job once you get it.
There were business classes in my high school back in the 70s, but I never had to be taught. I just used books and magazines. It's really not very difficult once you get the basic principles of respect and protocol. Hierarchy is very important in most organizations, and most people start out on the bottom unless they have an edge--family, experience, or talent.
I supposed if one has never been taught basic courtesies it might be more of a challenge. I notice many people never say please or thank you, not because they are intending to be rude, but more that they don't seem to realize that it is expected. Worse, they don't seem to notice that others do miss them saying it.
There are actually quite a few training courses in work-place etiquette. I covered many of the fundamentals when I taught business etiquette at our high school's summer enrichment program. We started with greetings and introductions, how to shake hands, and look people in the eye. I covered quite a few topics in the six-week program. Our state also has a job-preparation class as part of the curriculum called Jobs for Mississippi Graduates. They go into every aspect of job hunting as well as how to keep the job once you get it.
There were business classes in my high school back in the 70s, but I never had to be taught. I just used books and magazines. It's really not very difficult once you get the basic principles of respect and protocol. Hierarchy is very important in most organizations, and most people start out on the bottom unless they have an edge--family, experience, or talent.
I supposed if one has never been taught basic courtesies it might be more of a challenge. I notice many people never say please or thank you, not because they are intending to be rude, but more that they don't seem to realize that it is expected. Worse, they don't seem to notice that others do miss them saying it.
Exactly. Just about every high school and junior college in the country has something like that offered to anyone who wants it. The problem is that some people are so unmotivated that they don't take time to learn what the fundamentals are.
There are actually quite a few training courses in work-place etiquette. I covered many of the fundamentals when I taught business etiquette at our high school's summer enrichment program. We started with greetings and introductions, how to shake hands, and look people in the eye. I covered quite a few topics in the six-week program. Our state also has a job-preparation class as part of the curriculum called Jobs for Mississippi Graduates. They go into every aspect of job hunting as well as how to keep the job once you get it.
There were business classes in my high school back in the 70s, but I never had to be taught. I just used books and magazines. It's really not very difficult once you get the basic principles of respect and protocol. Hierarchy is very important in most organizations, and most people start out on the bottom unless they have an edge--family, experience, or talent.
I supposed if one has never been taught basic courtesies it might be more of a challenge. I notice many people never say please or thank you, not because they are intending to be rude, but more that they don't seem to realize that it is expected. Worse, they don't seem to notice that others do miss them saying it.
Here is an example:
I notice that more service people around here say "you're welcome" these days, instead of "thank you; may I help you with anything else?" or "my pleasure, please come again", or the ultra-polite, "no. Thank you! We appreciate your business." "You're welcome," to me is a little rude. You didn't really do me a favor by helping me find such and such if you work there; it's your job. It doesn't mean that they are trying to be rude, though. That is just what they think they are supposed to say. I usually model a different response, and sometimes they catch on, sometimes they don't. Does it bother me a lot these days? No, it doesn't. In fact, I even find myself saying "you're welcome," after doing expected tasks. No one seems to notice. That's a good example of different rules of etiquette governing different situations.
It's awesome that your state actually has a job preparation class. I wish my state had something like that. The career center at my college doesn't even provide that much help.
I suffer from migraines as well and many times I spent nights wide awake due to the pain. You see nothing wrong with punishing someone for a pretty much uncontrollable medical condition such as insomnia? Only if you are arrogant and self absorbed do you think of yawning as a sign of disrespect.
No, as an employer I want the BEST candidate for the job, and that includes being alert. It's not about punishment, it's about finding the best person for the job. No one owes you anything for having migraines. And yet again, IF the interviewee has such a condition, it is HIS responsibility to let the interviewer know about it upfront.
One hint that I can pass along as a hiring manager - beware of providing too much irrelevant information. Mini tirades about your sloppy roommate, how sad you were when your dog passed away, complaints about it being too hot or too cold in the interviewing area, etcetera are not helpful. In our business, we can ill-afford to deal with drama queens (or kings), and anything that gives that vibe will instantly raise concerns.
In IT, an old-school handwritten note is a throwback. Plus, most IT shops make their decision before the card ever gets to them. Also, only one person I interviewed with gave me a business card during the interview...and it wasn't a job I wanted, so I wasn't motivated to send a follow-up e-mail. If you don't give me your business card, how the hell do I know what your e-mail address is?
I also mentioned sitting across from my boss who was reading a couple of thank-you notes while rolling his eyes...did you not read my entire post?
That's the problem I kept running into. Majority of the interviews I've gone on the person interviewing me wasn't exactly prepared for the interview in the first place so business cards weren't available. The job I have now didn't require I send in a thank you note/email.
I once had an interview and the interviewer brought her boss into meet with me and join the interview. Her boss came in wearing jeans and an inappropriate top; had her cell phone in her hand was texting while I was answering questions; and just got up in the middle of me talking walking out of the room looking at her phone texting. Never came back.
My opinion of that company changed that very moment and I couldn't wait to end the interview. I also felt second hand embarrassment for the interviewer who invited her boss in as her boss was disrespectful to both of us.
I was like...WOW... I have seen it all now. Clearly professional works both ways and employers should not think thy are exempt from the rules just because RIGHT NOW the trend is in their favor. Rude is rude and it doesn't matter what side of the interview you are on.
That would have had me livid. I don't deal well with blatant disrespect.
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