Civil Engineering Jobs (employed, unemployment, degree, companies)
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I thought about electrical engineering, but I know that employment in that field has been on a decline for quite some time. I don't want to go into any hi-tech field, too many things change. Quite frankly I want to stay away from any further STEM education pursuits, that is if I decide to pursue more education (Unlikely). I have a bachelors degree, I done more than enough on my part. There are many people that dropped out of high school or did not go to college.
The Nobel winning economist Paul Krugman had something to say about this group of people that decided to further education:
"College graduates should be in a better position than those with lower education, but in many cases now they're in a worse position because they've come out of college with a lot of debt and they're coming into a job market that offers few jobs."
Yes, variables such as stability,pay, and demand seem somewhat correlated. What about electrical engineering, computer science degrees and the job market for those profession, I thought they were the least stable in Canada. There were a lot of layoffs at Nortel from the Dot-com bubble. Have those people recovered? I heard many of them are underemployed and not working in the profession. I don't know too much about the Canadian economy. Too be honest I don't know of any tech company besides Nortel and Research in Motion (Another company facing financial trouble). I know Canada has a lot of oil/gas & mining companies and they are well known throughout the world.
I looked at some of the credentials of civil engineers in Canada. Seems like the designation of EIT, PE, is also used up there. I would venture to guess that the exam is "equivalent"? You are familiar with the Michael Lindeburg manuals used in preparation for the license exams, etc?
I appreciate you responding.
No one I know from Nortel, electrical engineering (they all went into something computer related), comp sci are under employed. Almost everyone of my classmates went to Nortel after graduation. When they were laid off, they all ended at RIM, and are still there. Many Electrical/computer eng & CS also end up the Canadian R&D facilities of multinational high tech companies, and development in IT departments of banks, insurance companies. There aren't as much variety compare to the US, but it's probably easier to find another job (though my friends really haven't done this unless they were forced to) then for civil engineers.
Most schools have very strong ties to the big employers for various engineering disciplines, essentially feeding them interns and new grads. Supply meets demand most of the time.
Engineering schools are almost like fraternities up in Canada. It's a very tight knit group, and there are traditions and ceremony associated with it. Engineering frosh week (and many other social events) are usually completely separate from the rest of the university. The iron ring ceremony is a HUGE deal. It's not unusual for engineers to continue to wear their engineering school leather varsity jackets well after they graduate. They do wear the ring (it's now made of silver though).
I think that engineering culture makes it hard for those new grad engineers educated outside of Canada to break in to. Everyone was one related to/worked with/studied with everyone else.
Civil has always been the least stable. My brother is an architect/PM, so he worked with civil engineers and knows the construction industry. It's not as bad for civil engineers as architects, but it's still not great. His friends in the industry up in Canada are still struggling. He works in NYC now, but in the public sector, where there have been quite a few funding cuts. His friends in the private sector aren't doing well either.
Unless you went to one of the really well know US school (MIT, Columbia), you probably will need to take the exam (or have your degree evaluated by the province engineering body..or whatever their requirements are) to match a Canadian candidates education for consideration for the same entry level jobs. If you can get an offer, the immigration side is straight forward if you are a US citizen. US citizen qualify for a TN Visa under the Engineer category. TN is really easy to get for you and the employer. Not sure how many employers are aware of the TN though. I really suspect very few engineers (of any discipline) move up to Canada unless it's an internal transfer/promotion, or they were recruited for specific skills.
I wouldn't worry about EIT, much less the PPE until then. If you met some of the requirements in another province, or in the US, I believe they will recognize it, probably after you pay a fee to have it "evaluated". It's been a long time since I looked into it myself, or friends went through it, so i don't remember much. I do recall my brother having some of his the exams and work experience from Canada evaluated to get his PA in the US. I think it turned out to be cheaper overall in the US then Canada to get his license.
I hear there is a lot of jobs available in Fort Mcmurray? You have people getting 2 year degrees/certificates making well over 100k / year. Is there any truth to this ? I'm not a Canadian citizen, so it may be a bit difficult.
I hear there is a lot of jobs available in Fort Mcmurray? You have people getting 2 year degrees/certificates making well over 100k / year. Is there any truth to this ? I'm not a Canadian citizen, so it may be a bit difficult.
There is no such thing as a 2 year degree in Canada. Canada's post secondary education and degree issuing institutions are much more regulated then the US. And there are no associate degrees.
It's an oil boom town that supports the oil sand fields farther out...like boom out in North Dakota. Same hype about how jobs are are easy to come by, big money, no education required etc. etc. But its REALLY hard physical work to get the good pay. I think one of my high school friend's partner works in the fields, not exactly sure what. He doesn't have a degree, and they seem to be doing well financially (though they do live much farther south in Calgary, he is away for weeks at a time up north).
But I doubt those jobs would qualify for a work visa , but check the Canadian government site for more information Work in Canada for more information.
Not sure if it's applicable to you, but might be handy for other members of the board. American citizens with Native Indian status do not need any work visa to live and work in Canada (same applies for Canadians with Indian status to live and work in the US).
Last edited by gnomatic; 01-23-2014 at 02:51 AM..
Reason: clarify the similarities to North Dakota
Well, if you want job security with civil, try looking for a company that contracts with both private and public. Private construction was slow for a while, but it's picking up again. Same with public.
No one I know from Nortel, electrical engineering (they all went into something computer related), comp sci are under employed. Almost everyone of my classmates went to Nortel after graduation. When they were laid off, they all ended at RIM, and are still there. Many Electrical/computer eng & CS also end up the Canadian R&D facilities of multinational high tech companies, and development in IT departments of banks, insurance companies. There aren't as much variety compare to the US, but it's probably easier to find another job (though my friends really haven't done this unless they were forced to) then for civil engineers.
Anecdotal evidence...
RIM just laid off a few thousand after laying off a few thousand. Nortel went completely bust. At least five schools in Ontario where RIM is based have been producing electrical engineering grads each year.
Yes, variables such as stability,pay, and demand seem somewhat correlated. What about electrical engineering, computer science degrees and the job market for those profession, I thought they were the least stable in Canada. There were a lot of layoffs at Nortel from the Dot-com bubble. Have those people recovered? I heard many of them are underemployed and not working in the profession. I don't know too much about the Canadian economy. Too be honest I don't know of any tech company besides Nortel and Research in Motion (Another company facing financial trouble). I know Canada has a lot of oil/gas & mining companies and they are well known throughout the world.
I looked at some of the credentials of civil engineers in Canada. Seems like the designation of EIT, PE, is also used up there. I would venture to guess that the exam is "equivalent"? You are familiar with the Michael Lindeburg manuals used in preparation for the license exams, etc?
I appreciate you responding.
It's been covered already, but depending on who you talk to, someone's going to say this field is hot, or that field is not. In the past year alone, I've heard that civil is very hot in Canada because of the oil sands in Alberta and hot housing market. Then others say that electrical is very slow in Canada because of Nortel going bust and saturating the market with experienced electrical engineers. Also, there were supposedly large classes of electrical engineers that graduated into that dot-com bust because it was such a hot field then. Throw in people who can't get a job here, others who can get a job there, and I don't know who to believe.
Look into the engineering licensing bodies for each individual province you're interested in. A technical exam may not be required if your education is deemed "adequate" -- in my province, a graduate from an accredited school should only need to write a law and ethics exam.
RIM just laid off a few thousand after laying off a few thousand. Nortel went completely bust. At least five schools in Ontario where RIM is based have been producing electrical engineering grads each year.
I am well aware of that. I saw my friends cut from Nortel one by one, it was not a single lay off, but multiple over the course of the year. Moral was so bad, I questioned why they didn't jump ship earlier. Everyone find jobs after Nortel, no one is under employed. Most went to RIM, some to IBM, Flextronics, Ciena, and other smaller companies. I worked at one of Silicon Valley networking giant at that time, and they quickly hired many of the ex-Nortel engineers for their Ottawa (or it might have been in Kanata) R&D office. Yes RIM had many many layoffs. I never said they didn't. I said my friends are still employ there. If I were them, I would've left long ago. The smaller tech companies there that will no doubt benefit from the engineering expertise of RIM engineers, much like RIM did when Nortel imploded.
I have many friends in other engineering disciplines, they are also gainfully employed.The OP thought EE & comp sci was having a harder time then other disciplines. Those who studied civil engineering always had a tougher time. THAT was MY point.
I am well aware of the number of the engineering schools in Ontario, as I attended one. Yes they produce EE every year (actually every semester, some on different co-op schedules, or internships, taking on summer class loads). They also produce grads from all the other disciplines. RIM is not the only employer of EE, CS grads, though it might be the biggest one in Ontario.
I find it difficult to believe that a company the size of Nortel, with that amount of layoffs , definitely people would experienced unemployment or underemployment. When Nortel laid off that many people , it must have sent a chain reaction in job losses within the industry, not just the company but its contractors and their employees.
Also, as mentioned you have a number of EE/CS graduates each year , what about the people that graduated at that time. Were they able to find employment?
I browse some other forums, and hear a lot from bitter ex-employees from the dot-com bubble who are not currently working in the profession. You may say they are the minority or do those sites attract this minority?
Well, I'm still trying to figure out how to get a return on investment on this education, it may be a lost cause. I may be in that group that are worse off because they went to college, as the Nobel Laureate mentions. The fact is, I chose a STEM degree, supposedly a high demand profession, experiencing labor shortages.
Gerald Bracey “… the impending shortage of scientists and engineers is one of the longest running hoaxes in the country”
Bracey, G. 2009. Education Hell: Rhetoric Vs. Reality. Alexandra, VA: Educational Research Service.
Although I can't comment on engineering joen99 is right on about the "STEM shortage" It is the biggest load of bovine excrement every spread upon this nation. In science we have companies offering science workers $12 an hour no benefits, PhD's languishing in post-docs for over a decade, all the while companies are screaming for an h1-b free for all. It is sickening.
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