Volkswagen- I'm done with you. (van, purchase, driver, diesel)
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You can cry bloody murder all you like for I really couldn't be arsed. I did review for what it is. It's not going to get the Special Olympics treatment from me. I judge them for what they are. It's a transmission. I also judge them for their contributions towards the overall vehicle. I was not impressed. Driving a DSG VW pales in comparison to their manual counterparts in my opinion and the transmissions are the guilty party.
But you didn't judge the DSG as a transmission or its contributions. All I got from your posts was you dislike it because it has no clutch pedal. That's a perfectly fine opinion to have and you are welcome to express that, but don't mask that as an objective review.
Objectively what it offers to the vehicle: The DSG shifts faster than a manual. The DSG gives you launch control. And it can get better MPG than a manual. It offers the ability to shift for you or let you shift. However it also costs more and requires more maintenance.
But you didn't judge the DSG as a transmission or its contributions. All I got from your posts was you dislike it because it has no clutch pedal. That's a perfectly fine opinion to have and you are welcome to express that, but don't mask that as an objective review.
Objectively what it offers to the vehicle: The DSG shifts faster than a manual. The DSG gives you launch control. And it can get better MPG than a manual. It offers the ability to shift for you or let you shift. However it also costs more and requires more maintenance.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. You shouldn't give a damn. When did I mask it as an objective review? It is an objective review whether you like it or not. I don't have any bias against it at least not then. I reviewed it hence it's an objective review. Apparently, you read what you wanted it to say. I did judge it as a transmission and its contributions.
You forgot that it offers awkward ergonomics. It offers to override you.
I don't dislike because it doesn't have a clutch pedal. I dislike it because it is disengaging. The shifts in auto mode are gaping. In manual mode the paddles are dodgy and the shifts are rough. There were occasions where I had to press it twice for it to shift and the paddles are wheel mounted. The control of the vehicle is not there. It is sterile and reminds me of "Big Brother". Stupid kickdown switch and even with launch control. I didn't go as well as a manual. All of this has led to a disengaging and disappointing experience. I rather be stabbed than waste my money on a DSG VW.
My review was objective alright and it led to a subjective opinion.
Last edited by Yellow Jacket; 05-14-2013 at 12:21 PM..
I don't care what you think of my opinion. You shouldn't give a damn. When did I mask it as an objective review? It is an objective review whether you like it or not. I don't have any bias against it at least not then. I reviewed it hence it's an objective review. Apparently, you read what you wanted it to say. I did judge it as a transmission and its contributions.
Do you know what objective means? It means devoid of your opinion. Just the facts. What is objective about: "I've found it to be disappointing and disengaging."? Just the fact you said "I found" implies it's a subjective statement. Maybe had you described why you found it disengaging.
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Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket
You forgot that it offers awkward ergonomics. It offers to override you.
What awkward ergonomics? You don't like the placement of paddles or something?
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Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket
I don't dislike because it doesn't have a clutch pedal. I dislike it because it is disengaging.
I can see what you're saying here. The DSG won't allow you to break it. So no you don't have "complete" control. However you certainly have complete control within the bounds of non-stupidity.
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Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket
The shifts in auto mode are gaping. In manual mode the paddles are dodgy and the shifts are rough. There were occasions where I had to press it twice for it to shift and the paddles are wheel mounted.
The DSG shifts are much smoother than the manual. It's a trait of being a dual clutch. It has very fast, smooth shifts. I've never heard anyone say the opposite besides you. This is why the DSG is faster than the manual.
What is wrong with wheel mounted paddle shifters? That's pretty much standard for a dual clutch. They are even in Formula 1 cars.
Your issues with the paddles not shifting the first time was possibly from having traction control on. If you try to up-shift in a turn with traction control on, it may override you. If you turn that off, the DSG should not override proper up-shifts. Or maybe it was just a mechanical issue with that specific car, though I've never heard of that being a common issue before.
You can shift with the shifter too, you don't have to use the paddles...
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Originally Posted by Yellow Jacket
The control of the vehicle is not there. It is sterile and reminds me of "Big Brother". Stupid kickdown switch and even with launch control. I didn't go as well as a manual. All of this has led to a disengaging and disappointing experience. I rather be stabbed than waste my money on a DSG VW.
I agree, there is certainly less control, because you don't have that clutch pedal with direct mechanical control. The DSG won't let you do stupid things to it. I'm not sure why this completely ruins your driving experience though. But that's where your opinion comes in. I suppose you're the kind of person that likes knowing there's nothing stopping you from doing something even if you'd never do it.
[quote=Engineer_Guy;29564588]Do you know what objective means? It means devoid of your opinion. Just the facts. What is objective about: "I've found it to be disappointing and disengaging."? Just the fact you said "I found" implies it's a subjective statement. Maybe had you described why you found it disengaging.[quote]
Objective means impartial and unbiased which it was. Go cry a river.
"I would not say that's a fair review" Seriously, get over it.
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What awkward ergonomics? You don't like the placement of paddles or something?
Do I have to spoon feed you everything? Why care what I think? I don't care what you think.
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I can see what you're saying here. The DSG won't allow you to break it. So no you don't have "complete" control. However you certainly have complete control within the bounds of non-stupidity.
No you don't see what I'm saying and you're falling back to the extreme. Within the bounds of non-stupidity, you don't have complete control. Maybe you feel you do but I don't. There are many reasonable things that I can directly do with a traditional manual that a DSG can't.
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The DSG shifts are much smoother than the manual. It's a trait of being a dual clutch. It has very fast, smooth shifts. I've never heard anyone say the opposite besides you. This is why the DSG is faster than the manual.
Maybe to you it does. To me, it doesn't. The car jerks even at low rpm shifting. This was with all 3 DSG cars I've driven. I've heard more than a few people say it. A local VW manual only club that I've met had the same issues at a local dealership Golf R reveal. The general consensus was that they hate it and there is a reason why they don't allow DSG members. A couple of them had DSGs and got rid of them. Small sampling of course but when all but 2 of them work for VW. That speak volumes to me.
The owner of the R36 who is a German friend of mine agreed with my assessment. He went even further and called it a s***box. It's not very refined and even I shift smoother manually in a manual vehicle then I did using the DSG.
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What is wrong with wheel mounted paddle shifters? That's pretty much standard for a dual clutch. They are even in Formula 1 cars.
Yes because there are so many column shifter kits on the market. Wheel mounted paddles must be so grand. What's standard doesn't mean it's good. I guess I should want a one seater vehicle as well.
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Your issues with the paddles not shifting the first time was possibly from having traction control on. If you try to up-shift in a turn with traction control on, it may override you. If you turn that off, the DSG should not override proper up-shifts. Or maybe it was just a mechanical issue with that specific car, though I've never heard of that being a common issue before.
You've never heard of it being a common issue before? Fair enough. Neither have I but those who I've met who are very familiar with VWs say that DSGs are temperamental. Even the R36 owner hates it but he bought it for his wife so he never really drives it. I've seen people laud them and praise it. I don't see how it is worthy of my praise.
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You can shift with the shifter too, you don't have to use the paddles...
I did use the shifter as well......... If it was any better than I would have said so.
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I agree, there is certainly less control, because you don't have that clutch pedal with direct mechanical control. The DSG won't let you do stupid things to it. I'm not sure why this completely ruins your driving experience though. But that's where your opinion comes in. I suppose you're the kind of person that likes knowing there's nothing stopping you from doing something even if you'd never do it.
It won't let you do certain reasonable things as well. You're not sure why it ruins my driving experience? Maybe because I'm not easily amused. At the end of the day, you shouldn't care.
The DSGs do tend to shift a bit jerky at slow speeds and low power settings...things are typically really smooth, and wicked fast upshifts when you're gassing it. I have a lot of friends who own VW's, and only one has ever disliked them. That friend had a 2.0T CC, and he sold the car off after 2 years of dealing with transmissions issues from the DSG. The dealership couldn't replicate the problems, and said it must be "normal", they replaced a bunch of modules, uploaded new software, and did everything but replace the transmission. He wasn't able to get the problem solved, so he chose to part with the car. End result is that he's sworn off VW's all together for the future...reason, he purchased a $40k car, and thinks it performed like a $3k 8 year old beater. I love VW's, and have driven numerous models, and owned two...many other friends of mine are in that same boat as I, and find the cars fantastic to drive...and they've been reliable as well.
Even after reading all the comments on here my wife and I are going to start looking for a used TDI. We love them, never given us any problems and they arent Japanese like most of the cookie cutters I see on the road everyday.
Its amazing how one make can have a cult following on one side and another who is dead set against them. Mine have always been quality cars that perform well and look great. I grew up in NH and as a teenager in the early 90's you werent cool unless you drove a VW with the teardrop wheels, a Thule roof rack, etc. I just had to have one and after my 87 Golf GT I bought for 2K I fell in love with VW.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Originally Posted by mustangman66
... going to start looking for a used TDI.
,,, I just had to have one and after my 87 Golf GT I bought for 2K I fell in love with VW.
start your search here, (fred's) Fred's TDI Page. TDIClub.com. VW TDI Enthusiast Community They have a great classified, but you have to be FAST, as the few TDI only dealers in USA will beat you to the good ones. I have got some real dandies here (for under $2000)
I buy most of mine (used TDI's) from SW USA areas. Often San Antonio, Austin or Dallas. I fly in and drive home, or ship via a hotshotter or uship.com
I only buy A3 TDI or B4 TDI (+GLX wagons), so pretty old stuff. I take a low mileage GLX and use a TDI as a donor and ends up being pretty decent driver. (52 mpg w/ 25 gallon tank... 1200+ mile range) Free fryer grease is plenty good for fuel. (Brew your own Bio Diesel or use a grease conversion or live in a warm climate.) Just a sample of a CHEAP processor (BYO for under $100) Appleseed Processor Kit - Utah Biodiesel Supply
Have a friend that is a jet mechanic? They usually have access to FREE Jet-A. Add a qt of 2cycle oil per 55 gal drum of Jet-A. will work fine. Soon (I hope) we will have commercialized Algae Bio Diesel. JETS love it, so there is much pressure to get available. Emissions are negligible.
If you find another nice 87 GT, BUY IT... You can drop an IDI Turbo Diesel in it for ~ $700. One hot 12v for the fuel solenoid and a 12V HD circuit with a Starter Button for Glow plugs and you have a 50 mpg FUN commuter. I have a few of those and some extra 'Teardrops'
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Seriously, get over it. 
What's standard doesn't mean it's good. I guess I should want a one seater vehicle as well.
