Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The average suburb provides all the amenities that one needs to live on. Suburbs do have grocery stores, restuarants, parks, and whatever other garbage you want to throw out. Alot of suburbs have a main street, or some type of downtown. Now, is every suburb going to have an art gallery opening, or the opera playing, than no, they probably won't have that. You seem to be of the opinion that all suburbs that rely on a car just have houses and nothing else.
Yes, some suburbs provide all the amenties one needs to live on. Some suburbs also provide those amenities within walking distance. Some suburbs provide ample public transit. However, many do not provide all the amenities on needs to live on within walking distance (again, within convenient walking distance). Many suburbs do not provide ample public transit.
Mix them all together and you get the average...which is what I'm referring to.
Yes, some suburbs provide all the amenties one needs to live on. Some suburbs also provide those amenities within walking distance. Some suburbs provide ample public transit. However, many do not provide all the amenities on needs to live on within walking distance (again, within convenient walking distance). Many suburbs do not provide ample public transit.
Mix them all together and you get the average...which is what I'm referring to.
you and i simply disagree about the number of the suburbs that provide amenities that we need to live on. I think there are alot more suburbs, even those where the car is more needed, that provide all the amenities we need.
Yes, some suburbs provide all the amenties one needs to live on. Some suburbs also provide those amenities within walking distance. Some suburbs provide ample public transit. However, many do not provide all the amenities on needs to live on within walking distance (again, within convenient walking distance). Many suburbs do not provide ample public transit.
And then there are some cities that don't provide ample public transit as well, cities where entire neighborhoods are not served by public transportation, cities where you can't get there from here using public transportation, etc. etc. etc.
Quote:
Mix them all together and you get the average...which is what I'm referring to.
Mix all the cities together and you'll get the same result. The only thing we can safely say is that public transportation is inadequate in some locations, urban and suburban alike.
you and i simply disagree about the number of the suburbs that provide amenities that we need to live on. I think there are alot more suburbs, even those where the car is more needed, that provide all the amenities we need.
I fully agree. The point of this tangent was that one poster stated that an added benefit of living in an urban environment was that they could walk to a wide number of amenities. I don't think anyone's saying that amenities don't exist in the suburbs. I am saying, however, that on average suburbs are not as walkable to those amenities; sometimes because they're more spread-out, sometimes because there are no sidewalks with no safe way to get there, etc. If there is no safe way to walk (within convenience and reason), then there is less carless independence for a kid...is there not?
To get this back on topic, I'll continue to say that all parents want to put their kids in the best possible situation when it comes to getting an education. I don't believe they will lose any of the culture, vibrance nonsense just because they live in the suburbs. Could you keep your kid in a lower performing public school and they still succeed, assuming you stay on top of their education, yes you can, but I think alot of us look at the environment they will also walk into and thats why alot of parents move to the suburbs for schools.
And then there are some cities that don't provide ample public transit as well, cities where entire neighborhoods are not served by public transportation, cities where you can't get there from here using public transportation, etc. etc. etc.
Mix all the cities together and you'll get the same result. The only thing we can safely say is that public transportation is inadequate in some locations, urban and suburban alike.
I agree in concept, but disagree in scope and degree. The poorest of urban neighborhoods usually have public transportation to some degree (usually buses for the average American city) because that's the only way people can get around. Even in Richmond, where pubic transit is an after thought, buses go almost everywhere within city limits. I can get to almost any city neighborhood in Baltimore, Philly, Pittsburgh, Austin TX, Buffalo, etc. However, for at least Baltimore, Richmond and Buffalo, service to the burbs is limited in location and headways. Richmond doesn't have any service to the burbs except for express service during weekdays. You can't even get to the mall unless you take a cab.
In my experience, lacking public transit is far less of an issue in urban neighborhoods than suburban neighborhoods. And why wouldn't it be? There are many suburban people (who don't blog on this site) that wouldn't take public transportation unless they absolutely had to. They prefer to drive, hence the reason the built environment supports that.
And then there are some cities that don't provide ample public transit as well, cities where entire neighborhoods are not served by public transportation, cities where you can't get there from here using public transportation, etc. etc. etc.
Mix all the cities together and you'll get the same result. The only thing we can safely say is that public transportation is inadequate in some locations, urban and suburban alike.
That's why, generally speaking, I think it makes a lot more sense to talk about "urban" and "suburban" locations (although I know people don't like that terminology, either) as opposed to getting hung up about city lines. So for the people who say "I can walk to everything I need -- grocery stores, doctors, library, pharmacy, restaurants, dentist, etc. -- within a 10-15 minute radius in my suburb", well, I think those are a totally different form than, say, the modern American subdivision. Just like I don't think people are envisioning a really sleepy city neighborhood filled with mostly single family homes and not much else to be their vision of "urban."
I fully agree. The point of this tangent was that one poster stated that an added benefit of living in an urban environment was that they could walk to a wide number of amenities. I don't think anyone's saying that amenities don't exist in the suburbs. I am saying, however, that on average suburbs are not as walkable to those amenities; sometimes because they're more spread-out, sometimes because there are no sidewalks with no safe way to get there, etc. If there is no safe way to walk (within convenience and reason), then there is less carless independence for a kid...is there not?
and i'm making the point that you can't say the average suburb is not walkable.
Just like I don't think people are envisioning a really sleepy city neighborhood filled with mostly single family homes and not much else to be their vision of "urban."
I am always thinking of that, becuase that's where I live. Except that there is "much else" within a few blocks. And that's the difference.
And then there are some cities that don't provide ample public transit as well, cities where entire neighborhoods are not served by public transportation, cities where you can't get there from here using public transportation, etc. etc. etc.
On average, cities are denser and have much higher transit usage than their suburbs at least in the same metro. But as UptownUrbanist said, city limits can be rather arbitrary, and not the best distinction.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
