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To be honest, I found what you said to be an attack. I hear it all the time from sububan dwellers here: "You lazy city people need to fix your schools! Don't you CARE? We'll tell you what you're doing wrong But we aren't paying for it! And fix the parking and potholes (which we aren't paying for) while you're at it, too!"
I am surrounded by lots of teachers and other people who work in schools here, trying to improve the situation (myself included), so I am a little sensitive to being told what "urban advocates" need to do.
The HHS poverty line is about $11,000 for a single individual, $23k for a family of four. Do you really think the family bringing in $24k is middle class? LOL!
Median household income in the city is about $30k compared to about $50k in suburban county which surrounds the city (but is seperate from). Don't tell me where the middle class lives in Baltimore.
I'm not. If you were talking only about CO schools though, you should have been specific, and not called out "all urban advocates."
I'm sorry you so misconstrued what I said that you took it as an attack. I certainly took it as an attack when you said that I, specifically, did not want to pay for urban schools. In this state, I am helping to pay for every urban, rural, and suburban school district. That was my point with the tutorial about Colorado school finance.
I do not recall ever reading on this forum (or on the ed forum either, for that matter) that urban schools need to be pressured to shape up, and yes, that is what I think needs to be done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by semiurbanite
Yet i gave so many other examples of why it enriches the lives of my kids, yet you dismiss it. It takes more effort, time and initiative to immerse your kids in all of the benefits of an urban neighborhood. One could argue that it is lazy of parents to assume that a bigger house with a big safe yard on a cul-de-sac is all a kid needs.
regarding urban schools - some a horrible and dangerous, others are very mixed, and the kids with high SES actually score just as well as kids in suburban schools with a much higher average score.
Regarding private schools - study after study shows that when you control for SES, there is no benefit to private schools.
My point was that many in "the city" do not want to send their kids to urban public schools, so they send their kids to private schools. While I think there will always be some who truly want private schools for some reason, I think many in the city use the private school system as an alternative to the city schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei
There are rather frequent threads on city schools in this forum. But yes, I'm more interested in discussing urban layout than city schools. Rarely is walkability discussed towards just bars on this boards, it's usually to be able to get around locally without a car.
Yes. At least for New York City, the school system is directly under control of the mayor. I didn't know that city school districts were separate from the city government in other large cities; that's the case for the suburbs I'm familiar with.
Thank you for your honesty. I think a lot of people on this forum do not really care about the city schools.
I think NYC is an outlier in the respect of the city being directly involved in the schools. I could (and probably will) do some research on that, but I do not have the time right now, need to go to a work meeting at noon.
Last edited by nei; 10-18-2012 at 09:52 AM..
Reason: rude
You could probably find a lot of stuff in the American Journal of Public Health. This whole "built environment" stuff was very big a few years back.
ETA: Here is one about how dog walking impacts obesity.
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v3...jo201036a.html
***This study also calls into question the relationship between walkability and changes in BMI and emphasizes the necessity of longitudinal data rather than relying on cross-sectional research.
City structure, obesity, and environmental justi... [Soc Sci Med. 2009] - PubMed - NCBI
***We find that, counter to predictions, subpopulations generally considered vulnerable to obesity (and environmental injustices more generally) are more likely to live in walkable neighborhoods and have better walking access to neighborhood parks than other groups in Phoenix. However, crime is highest in walkable neighborhoods with large Latino/a and African-American populations and parks are smaller in areas populated by Latino/as. Given the higher prevalence of obesity and related diseases in lower income and minority populations in Phoenix, the results suggest that benefits of built environments may be offset by social characteristics. Our most consistent finding indicates a strong negative relationship between the percentage of the population under 18 years of age living in an area and the likelihood that the structure of the built environment supports physical activity.
I do not recall ever reading on this forum (or on the ed forum either, for that matter) that urban schools need to be pressured to shape up, and yes, that is what I think needs to be done.
Perhaps because many here believe the poor schools are mostly the result of demographics rather than city mismangagement.
Quote:
I think NYC is an outlier in the respect of the city being directly involved in the schools. I could (and probably will) do some research on that, but I do not have the time right now, need to go to a work meeting at noon.
I'm curious, but here's an article referring to NYC public schools that's applicable everywhere. Well-off parents angry about a city proposal to redraw elementary school boundaries that would make their children go to school with poorer kids.
“My family bought a place in what we thought was P.S. 321,†another parent said. “Now we’d be put into a new school. We played by the rules; we bought in zone because we want to be in that zone.†“It’s all about the teachers; that’s the equity here,†said Brian Hull, a father of young children who lives within the P.S. 321 zone. “That’s why everybody’s here tonight.â€
Perhaps because many here believe the poor schools are mostly the result of demographics rather than city mismangagement.
I'm curious, but here's an article referring to NYC public schools that's applicable everywhere. Well-off parents angry about a city proposal to redraw elementary school boundaries that would make their children go to school with poorer kids.
“My family bought a place in what we thought was P.S. 321,†another parent said. “Now we’d be put into a new school. We played by the rules; we bought in zone because we want to be in that zone.†“It’s all about the teachers; that’s the equity here,†said Brian Hull, a father of young children who lives within the P.S. 321 zone. “That’s why everybody’s here tonight.â€
I think it's more that many on this board are young males, frequently unmarried. They have no concerns about schools b/c they don't have any kids nor any plans for any kids in the near future.
There is nothing in that article that supports the bold.
I think it's more that many on this board are young males, frequently unmarried. They have no concerns about schools b/c they don't have any kids nor any plans for any kids in the near future.
.
Should the opinions of those without children rank lower for some reason? I think this is unfair.
Some may actually care about others (!), or the vitality of their city, or at the very least, property values, if they are homewoners. Some people without children also volunteer their time to work with kids.
Last edited by HandsUpThumbsDown; 10-18-2012 at 10:59 AM..
Reason: no need for tone
Should the opinions of those without children rank lower for some reason? I think this is unfair.
Some may actually care about others (!), or the vitality of their city, or at the very least, property values, if they are homewoners. Some people without children also volunteer their time to work with kids.
Jeez, Louise! I posited that was a reason schools were not a popular topic on this forum.
I don't know of one regualr poster on this forum who has kids in city schools.
Jeez, Louise! I posited that was a reason schools were not a popular topic on this forum.
I don't know of one regualr poster on this forum who has kids in city schools.
While that may be true, I can tell you that bad public schools plague my city neighborhoods. So while I won't be concerned about it for myself directly, it has a huge impact on me indirectly. It's also a pretty frequent conversation piece between residents, even those without kids.
While that may be true, I can tell you that poor schools plague my city neighborhoods. So while I won't be concerned about it for myself directly, it has a huge impact on me indirectly. It's also a pretty frequent conversation piece between residents, even those without kids.
Well, it's not a frequent conversation piece on this forum. The posters with little kids either in school or soon to be, all live in the suburbs. (Of course, their suburbs are "different".) On the Pittsburgh forum, some of the urbanists are trying to get their kids into charter or magnet schools, or they send them to private schools. On Denver, people seem to favor the schools on the east side of the city, and some of the suburban districts.
Perhaps because many here believe the poor schools are mostly the result of demographics rather than city mismangagement.
I definitely agree, though I would change "city" to "school administration" where appropriate. While I'm not going to give poorly performing school administrations a "get out of jail free" card, I would still wager that if the student bodies from a poorly performing district, and an excellent district were switched, their ratings would change drastically.
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