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The squares around where we live often have festivals on weekends, for example last weekend was one called "Honk!" and many of the local kids were our enjoying the festival and watching the parade as went through town. These festivals are pretty common and are a great way to bring the community together.
Two farmers markets are walkable from our house.
Teens are free to walk to one of three local squares where they can go to restaurants, get ice cream, etc. Kid friendly restaurants abound and when you go to dinner for the early shift, the restaurants are full of kids of all ages. Teens are also free to jump on the train and go to others parts of the city, car free.
I realize some parts of suburbia are walkable, but lets face it 98%+ of the homes in suburbia are NOT walkable to much of anything. I think the main point here is that when things are right out your door you simply take advantage of them much more often, especially with kids in tow.
I don't know if I agree with your last point. Are you saying you are more likely to go on a 10 minute walk than a 10 minute drive? Or a 5 minute walk or a 5 minute drive? I don't agree.
I am not disagreeing with walkability, just that 5 minutes is 5 minutes.
Your town seems very nice and full of great experiences. This was my Saturday, which I feel added value to my children's lives:
1. Woke up and made breakfast
2. Walked to the park for the boys soccer game
3. Walked home and raked leaves and the kids kept jumping in the leaves. 5 neighbor kids ended in our yard jumping in the piles. It is common for the kids on our street to congregate in whatever yard has the best fun for the moment. It is also common for my kids to ride their bike up and down the street when they are bored, because there are so many kids in the hood, and one will likely come out to play.
4. Drove 10 minutes to daughters dance class
5. Shopped at the grocery store next to the dance class, then picked her up and we drove 10 minutes and went to the new organic restaurant for lunch
6. Walked over to the costume shop to get costumes, where we spent far too long costume shopping
7. Came home and played soccer in the back yard with my kids and 3 others from the neighborhood
8. Baked cookies for the party we had that night at our friends house, which was a 15 minute drive away...and I complained (not in a bad way) how far away it was, haha. My wife then told me how nice their house was though...a common disagreement, distance vs size of home.
So, we had a wide range of experiences and went a max of 15 minutes (by car) from our house, all in a suburb. It really is just finding the place that best fits what you are looking for in this stage of life, from schools, social activities, culture, and vibrancy.
That's why, generally speaking, I think it makes a lot more sense to talk about "urban" and "suburban" locations (although I know people don't like that terminology, either) as opposed to getting hung up about city lines. So for the people who say "I can walk to everything I need -- grocery stores, doctors, library, pharmacy, restaurants, dentist, etc. -- within a 10-15 minute radius in my suburb", well, I think those are a totally different form than, say, the modern American subdivision. Just like I don't think people are envisioning a really sleepy city neighborhood filled with mostly single family homes and not much else to be their vision of "urban."
while I agree with you in principle about getting hung up on city lines, thats really the only way you can have this debate. The OP made an assumption that by moving kids to the suburbs for schools, a kids was going to miss out the vibrance, independence, culture and other stupidity that urbanist come up with. We are saying, no they won't.
(oops -- thread moves fast! This is in reference to the 5 minutes is 5 minutes post. Should have quoted it directly!)
Ah, but I think there IS a difference between 10 minutes driving and 10 minutes walking, for some people. Clearly many people don't care -- and I'd venture that most Americans don't really care -- and for them, as you note, 5 minutes is 5 minutes.
But for me, there is a big difference. Part of that is that we don't own a car, but even when we did have a car, we preferred not to use it. For our family, a 10 minute drive was a much bigger deal, while a 10, 20, 30 minute walk was a casual thing. That was especially true when our son was still in a stroller. (I know there was some debate about that earlier, but for us, it was much easier to just pop him into the stroller rather than deal with the car)
I think you are right about finding the right fit, but it's not only right fit for stage of life, but also right fit for personal family preferences and lifestyle.
(oops -- thread moves fast! This is in reference to the 5 minutes is 5 minutes post. Should have quoted it directly!)
Ah, but I think there IS a difference between 10 minutes driving and 10 minutes walking, for some people. Clearly many people don't care -- and I'd venture that most Americans don't really care -- and for them, as you note, 5 minutes is 5 minutes.
But for me, there is a big difference. Part of that is that we don't own a car, but even when we did have a car, we preferred not to use it. For our family, a 10 minute drive was a much bigger deal, while a 10, 20, 30 minute walk was a casual thing. That was especially true when our son was still in a stroller. (I know there was some debate about that earlier, but for us, it was much easier to just pop him into the stroller rather than deal with the car)
I think you are right about finding the right fit, but it's not only right fit for stage of life, but also right fit for personal family preferences and lifestyle.
Excellent point. Many people don't care about a drive vs. a walk. That's fine, but it seems we argue that the experience is the same thing. I find walking far less stressful and an extension of my leisure time, whereas, there are many people who like driving.
In any event, they are not the same experience. I hated driving as a kid, but always loved walking from place to place. The other important point is that you have to have a license and a car in order to drive. To walk, you only need legs.
I don't know if I agree with your last point. Are you saying you are more likely to go on a 10 minute walk than a 10 minute drive? Or a 5 minute walk or a 5 minute drive? I don't agree.
I am not disagreeing with walkability, just that 5 minutes is 5 minutes.
Your town seems very nice and full of great experiences. This was my Saturday, which I feel added value to my children's lives:
1. Woke up and made breakfast
2. Walked to the park for the boys soccer game
3. Walked home and raked leaves and the kids kept jumping in the leaves. 5 neighbor kids ended in our yard jumping in the piles. It is common for the kids on our street to congregate in whatever yard has the best fun for the moment. It is also common for my kids to ride their bike up and down the street when they are bored, because there are so many kids in the hood, and one will likely come out to play.
4. Drove 10 minutes to daughters dance class
5. Shopped at the grocery store next to the dance class, then picked her up and we drove 10 minutes and went to the new organic restaurant for lunch
6. Walked over to the costume shop to get costumes, where we spent far too long costume shopping
7. Came home and played soccer in the back yard with my kids and 3 others from the neighborhood
8. Baked cookies for the party we had that night at our friends house, which was a 15 minute drive away...and I complained (not in a bad way) how far away it was, haha. My wife then told me how nice their house was though...a common disagreement, distance vs size of home.
So, we had a wide range of experiences and went a max of 15 minutes (by car) from our house, all in a suburb. It really is just finding the place that best fits what you are looking for in this stage of life, from schools, social activities, culture, and vibrancy.
For whatever reason, urbanist seem to have this impression that because they choose to live in a neighborhood where they walk everywhere, they are experiencing all this vibrance, culture and independence and that people who choose to live in neighborhood where there is more drving, some how we never experience any of it.
Excellent point. Many people don't care about a drive vs. a walk. That's fine, but it seems we argue that the experience is the same thing. I find walking far less stressful and an extension of my leisure time, whereas, there are many people who like driving.
In any event, they are not the same experience. I hated driving as a kid, but always loved walking from place to place. The other important point is that you have to have a license and a car in order to drive. To walk, you only need legs.
I think what we are saying is that just because our kids may not walk everywhere, they aren't going to be deprived of going to museums, or art galleries, or whatever you think culture is, or any independence.
So, on average suburban development is just as walkable to a variety of amenities as an urban development; is this what you're saying?
What I'm saying is that there are some urban and suburban developments where you can walk , there are some suburban and urban developments where walkability is an issue.
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