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1 - Right and the 12ish square miles has several examples of what I posted. I can post more if you disagree. In any event, the point is that even in large towns/small cities like yours, there are many neighborhoods that are not walkable.
2 - That was an example, not related to your city. The point being that sidewalks and a park being present do not make for the types of neighborhoods that are truly walkable.
3 - People talk about the ills of their younger years in the city and I don't hear you complaining about that. You also don't hear pro-urban posters complaining, so what's the problem?
It's 8.6 sqare miles and I really don't care what you think of the place. I have lived here 30 years, raised two kids here and am very happy here. There may be some neighborhoods that are less walkable than others, but that is no different from any city. Our fearless mod stated there are neighborhoods in NYC that are not walkable. Don't like an unwalkable neighborhood? Don't live there.
2. OK. I disagree. What the heck do you want to walk to, anyway? We could walk to Mile HIgh Stadium, when we lived in Denver. Is that what you want?
3. Not so much. Most grew up in the burbs, and to hear some of them tell it, it was awful. The burbs are responsible for them not having friends, girlfriends, boyfriends, etc.
It's 8.6 sqare miles and I really don't care what you think of the place. I have lived here 30 years, raised two kids here and am very happy here. There may be some neighborhoods that are less walkable than others, but that is no different from any city. Our fearless mod stated there are neighborhoods in NYC that are not walkable. Don't like an unwalkable neighborhood? Don't live there.
2. OK. I disagree. What the heck do you want to walk to, anyway? We could walk to Mile HIgh Stadium, when we lived in Denver. Is that what you want?
3. Not so much. Most grew up in the burbs, and to hear some of them tell it, it was awful. The burbs are responsible for them not having friends, girlfriends, boyfriends, etc.
1 - Agreed on that fact, but the point of the conversation was that living someplace where you can walk to a wide variety of amenities as a kid is a different experience than where you cannot.
Just to be clear, I'm not judging where you've chosen to live (this is only a single facet to a neighborhood, and it's not under personal judgement). Where I live is what I consider "somewhat walkable", but it's hardly the winner of a walkable neighborhood trophy. To be fair, here's where I live:
I have three bus lines but the schedules are fairly restrictive at certain times. It's a great neighborhood, but its connectivity to the rest of the city is "ok". I make it work because I bike most places.
2 - Most people I know would say "what do you want to walk to anyway". My answer is that I want to be able to not feel inconvenienced to live without a car. If you can live in a neighborhood and walk to everything you need, I feel it's a great experience. That's just me, but I suspect some others who have kids appreciate that too; kind of like semiurbanite.
3 - Well, NT was just saying in another thread that he grew up in a crime-filled city neighborhood. There are downsides to both, but each story provides perspective, does it not?
Here are the top 2012 Los Angeles County high school API scores. I cribbed this from a not-to-be-mentioned forum:
1. La Canada 942
2. San Marino 940
3. Mira Costa (Manhattan Beach) 913
4. Palos Verdes Peninsula 907
5. Palos Verdes 897
6. Arcadia 895
7. South Pasadena 894
8. Crescenta Valley (La Crescenta) 891
9. Walnut 890
10. Temple City 885
11. El Segundo 883
12. South Torrance 875
13. West Torrance 874
14. Diamond Bar 873
15. Malibu 871
16. Beverly Hills 868
17. Cerritos 868
18. Calabasas 864
19. Keppel (Alhambra) 864
20. Bonita (La Verne) 861
21. Agoura 859
22. Redondo Union 856
23. West Ranch (Valencia) 856
24. Valencia 850
25. Gabrielino (San Gabriel) 841
26. La Serna (Whittier) 839
27. Glendora 837
28. Rowland (Rowland Heights) 835
29. Burbank 831
30. Wilson (La Puente) 830
31. Hart (Valencia) 830
32. Edgewood (West Covina) 829
33. San Dimas 827
34. Burroughs (Burbank) 825
35. Torrance 824
36. Santa Monica 823
37. Culver City 821
38. Saugus (Valencia) 820
39. Claremont 819
40. North Torrance 815
Basically, all of them are high schools in middle-class to upper-class suburban areas... maybe except for Beverly Hills HS and Santa Monica HS--those two are relatively a bit more urban.
LA gets to be pretty confusing. There isn't a stark "suburb"/"city" split. People DO move to areas because of the public schools (many of our neighbors in South Pasadena were there for the schools), but the schools on this list reflect a really diverse array of location types. You also can't overlook the other big factor that a lot of these schools have in common (not all, but a lot): high Asian populations. I know that's a stereotype, but it's definitely a common denominator in many of these schools. And then there are places like San Marino, which has ultra-rich Chinese kids.
In any case, LA is such a weird metro area for so many reasons. And many of its suburbs (Alhambra, for example) while certainly suburban, are at the same time so much more "urban" than many American suburbs. I'm too lazy to look up the numbers right now, but I bet the density there, for example, is much higher than many city neighborhoods in my home city of Minneapolis -- and has a higher overall walkscore than Denver, Baltimore, and Oakland, among other cities. I know, not really a fair comparison given differences of sizes, but does highlight how many of LA's suburbs probably have more in common with some of the urban neighborhoods in other metro areas. Definitely not center city, of course, but still semi-urban in form.
LA gets to be pretty confusing. There isn't a stark "suburb"/"city" split. People DO move to areas because of the public schools (many of our neighbors in South Pasadena were there for the schools), but the schools on this list reflect a really diverse array of location types. You also can't overlook the other big factor that a lot of these schools have in common (not all, but a lot): high Asian populations. I know that's a stereotype, but it's definitely a common denominator in many of these schools. And then there are places like San Marino, which has ultra-rich Chinese kids.
In any case, LA is such a weird metro area for so many reasons. And many of its suburbs (Alhambra, for example) while certainly suburban, are at the same time so much more "urban" than many American suburbs. I'm too lazy to look up the numbers right now, but I bet the density there, for example, is much higher than many city neighborhoods in my home city of Minneapolis -- and has a higher overall walkscore than Denver, Baltimore, and Oakland, among other cities. I know, not really a fair comparison given differences of sizes, but does highlight how many of LA's suburbs probably have more in common with some of the urban neighborhoods in other metro areas. Definitely not center city, of course, but still semi-urban in form.
Yeah, Alhambra is pretty urban IMO, so are West Covina, Culver City, and Burbank. There are a few more that are more urban than suburban.
Yes. There are a few "Asian" cities on the list, but I think it's pretty clear that they are all expensive, affluent cities, Asian or not.
What sticks out the most is Wilson High School in La Puente (#30). La Puente is not an affluent city--it's a Hispanic/Latino working class city--so, that was surprising.
However, Wilson HS is actually in Hacienda Heights, which is considered an "Asian" city. The school district is called Hacienda La Puente USD.
According to Wikipedia, Wilson HS has a 58% Asian student population.
urban planning has nothing to do with school quality.
The reason why schools in the suburbs are good is because most suburbs are built with the exact same $200K+ housing with very little apartments or other types of affordable housing. Not everyone can afford or even need 3 bedrooms, 3 baths. When that happens, demographics shift drastically.
Stats of my town:
92% white, 5% asian.
median household income: 100K+
urban planning has nothing to do with school quality.
But school quality has a direct impact on urban planning initiatives and urban revitalization. Several threads in this forum have pointed to the fact that good schools have a direct impact on family decisions to relocate to districts with better schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by im_a_lawyer
The reason why schools in the suburbs are good is because most suburbs are built with the exact same $200K+ housing with very little apartments or other types of affordable housing. Not everyone can afford or even need 3 bedrooms, 3 baths. When that happens, demographics shift drastically.
When suburbs are first built, they're generally valued pretty highly. However, as they age, the desirability of them may decline and the price of that housing can fall dramatically; this is what happened with many inner-city neighborhoods, and it's happening with suburban neighborhoods as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by im_a_lawyer
Stats of my town:
92% white, 5% asian.
median household income: 100K+
how do you think our schools are doing?
It's economic/racial segregation pure and simple.
Socioeconomic factors definitely play a large role, but I wouldn't call it racial. There may be racial commonalities amongst socioeconomic tiers, but all races make up at least a part of every one of those tiers.
When suburbs are first built, they're generally valued pretty highly. However, as they age, the desirability of them may decline and the price of that housing can fall dramatically; this is what happened with many inner-city neighborhoods, and it's happening with suburban neighborhoods as well.
I think planning really is important in keeping an area desirable. High quality schools and low crime will help keep values high, as well as smart decisions on the continued development of a city...such as building out a central destination for the town, being business friendly, community events, as well as bringing nature into the city.
I think planning really is important in keeping an area desirable. High quality schools and low crime will help keep values high, as well as smart decisions on the continued development of a city...such as building out a central destination for the town, being business friendly, community events, as well as bringing nature into the city.
Right, in fact high values (which are based on desirability) have a direct impact on crime and eventually schools IMO. Gentrifying city neighborhoods often times don't have great middle and high schools, and that's probably because the improvement of schools seem to lag behind rising prices. I left Elementary schools out because that level of schooling seems to turn around more quickly (I guess middle and high school ages are more complex?).
I think planning really is important in keeping an area desirable. High quality schools and low crime will help keep values high, as well as smart decisions on the continued development of a city...such as building out a central destination for the town, being business friendly, community events, as well as bringing nature into the city.
Crime rises when values in the neighborhood drop. It's a common myth that crime and lower income people push values down and higher income people out. People are pushed and displaced by desirability that leads to higher values (hence the gentrification process).
I do agree that planning is important to keep an area desirable, thus keeping schools good. 100 year old high-value neighborhoods that weathered the exodus to the suburbs last century only did so by good planning (e.g. good location, quality transit, walkable, etc.) and good quality build.
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