State senator wants to outlaw plastic grocery bags in Texas (Howe: credit card, houses)

[momof2dfw]

Originally Posted by texashorselady

redclay, that's always the justification: "but they don't make the same decisions i do with the same information, thus they just must not be able to take care of themselves or make the right decision, because my decision must be the right one. So let's just make a law that everyone has to make the same decision that i do, because, after all, i'm right."

if you think that way, then chances are you're making a lot of wrong decisions because you can't acknowledge your own fallibility, or deep down you feel that your decisions can't stand on their own unless everybody else makes the same decision and thus you have to make sure they do by legislating it.

Not exactly what this country was founded on, is it?

And, no, this country isn't made up of children rather than adults,yet,even though those who think as i describe above are trying very hard to make it so.

exactly!!!!!!!!

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

redclay, that's always the justification: "But they don't make the same decisions I do with the same information, thus they just must not be able to take care of themselves or make the RIGHT decision, because MY decision MUST be the right one. So let's just make a law that everyone has to make the same decision that I do, because, after all, I'm RIGHT."

If you think that way, then chances are you're making a lot of wrong decisions because you can't acknowledge your own fallibility, or deep down you feel that your decisions can't stand on their own unless everybody else makes the same decision and thus you have to make sure they do by legislating it.

Not exactly what this country was founded on, is it?

And, no, this country isn't made up of children rather than adults,yet,even though those who think as I describe above are trying very hard to make it so.

This is put just about as well as it can be put. Good job, THL.

Although this column is not about "recycling", it does speak to the mindset of those who honestly believe they are wise enough to micro-manage society.

Thomas Sowell

[redclay45]

TexasHorseLady... In an ideal world we would not need laws.. But it is not an ideal world.. Why do we have seatbelt laws, laws for speeding, laws for drinking and driving.Laws against beating a child, or leaving a child in a locked care alone,, . and on and on.... Laws are made to protect the majority... Yes, if each individual would buckle their kids into the seat belts, there would never have been the need to have child seat belt laws... But folks do not always make the right decisions, Oh ,and what about laws regarding throwing trash onto our highways.. Why do we have laws, and hefty fines?? Because too many doo-doos thought it was their right to throw trash on the highways.... The disposing of the use of plastic bags, is to help everyone.. Not just me or you.. Oh how i wish we did not need a nanny society ,,, but I have yet to see a time when we have not...

[fnord]

Good riddance, I guess. Next door in New Mexico plastic bags should be made the state emblem - on the flag or something. Walk around anywhere outside and see them floating around, stuck on trees, intertwined in chain link fencing.

Note: you can pick up a variety of tote bags at any thrift store for around $1. I've been using tote bags for years - I just keep one rolled up in my handbag so it's always there. In Germany, people have been doing this for...forever? I hear China is banning them as well.

The first thing I say to a sales clerk is "I have my own bag." Still, they usually automatically put my one item into a plastic bag. Habit, I guess. Once I purchased a bottle of wine at Walgreen's and the clerk said I couldn't put it in my bag - it had to be in a plastic bag. I just ignored her, took it out of the plastic bag, and walked out.

[TexasHorseLady]

TexasHorseLady... In an ideal world we would not need laws.. But it is not an ideal world.. Why do we have seatbelt laws, laws for speeding, laws for drinking and driving.Laws against beating a child, or leaving a child in a locked care alone,, . and on and on.... Laws are made to protect the majority... Yes, if each individual would buckle their kids into the seat belts, there would never have been the need to have child seat belt laws... But folks do not always make the right decisions, Oh ,and what about laws regarding throwing trash onto our highways.. Why do we have laws, and hefty fines?? Because too many doo-doos thought it was their right to throw trash on the highways.... The disposing of the use of plastic bags, is to help everyone.. Not just me or you.. Oh how i wish we did not need a nanny society ,,, but I have yet to see a time when we have not...

There is a limit. And we don't "need" a nanny state. The only ones who convince themselves that we do are those that I described above - the ones who think that only they have the right answers and anyone who does not come up with the same answers they do must be coerced, by legislation if necessary, into acting as if they agree with them. They are the ones who NEED a nanny state, in order to keep others from disagreeing with them.

They rarely ever see themselves in this way, however, preferring to think that they're doing this for our own good, even if we would rather they not.

That rumbling sound you hear? It's our founding fathers rolling over in their graves.

[redclay45]

TexasHorseLady.... Our founding fathers did not have plastic bags to worry about...As for rolling over in their graves.. You are right, they probably are, when they see the state of the land they left to us.. They left us a legacy to look after,, We seem to be messing it up real good...

[TexasReb]

Originally Posted by redclay45

TexasHorseLady.... Our founding fathers did not have plastic bags to worry about...As for rolling over in their graves.. You are right, they probably are, when they see the state of the land they left to us.. They left us a legacy to look after,, We seem to be messing it up real good...

Our Founding Fathers understood the concept of true freedom. It didn't mean a nanny state which micro-manages society to the level of something so ridiculous as "outlawing" plastic bags.

You speak in broad idealistic terms and words, but can you be more specific? For instance, please qualify exactly what you mean (and why) in terms of what the Founding Fathers believed as to taking the land and doing something with it (which created the greatest, wealthiest country in world history), as opposed to hugging trees?

I don't mean to be a smarta$$. Because YES, I will be the first to say that the price to pay has been a lot of filth, waste, and pollution. BUT...the best solution has always been the free market working. Whether social or economic. Public opinion is what eventually has the effect of checking the more extreme "problems." There is a natural working, so to speak. In a free society, there is an acceptance that the individual is limited...but the species is wise...

Unfortunately, as has been stated by others, ever more and more there is a mindset that will -- by mandate if neccessary -- impose their own self-annointed visions upon the rest of us.

[Cathy4017]

Unfortunately, as has been stated by others, ever more and more there is a mindset that will -- by mandate if neccessary -- impose their own self-annointed visions upon the rest of us.

Right on, TR....and you can be danged sure that is exactly what is coming over the next four years.

[redclay45]

Originally Posted by TexasReb

Our Founding Fathers understood the concept of true freedom. It didn't mean a nanny state which micro-manages society to the level of something so ridiculous as "outlawing" plastic bags.

You speak in broad idealistic terms and words, but can you be more specific? For instance, please qualify exactly what you mean (and why) in terms of what the Founding Fathers believed as to taking the land and doing something with it (which created the greatest, wealthiest country in world history), as opposed to hugging trees?

I don't mean to be a smarta$$. Because YES, I will be the first to say that the price to pay has been a lot of filth, waste, and pollution. BUT...the best solution has always been the free market working. Whether social or economic. Public opinion is what eventually has the effect of checking the more extreme "problems." There is a natural working, so to speak. In a free society, there is an acceptance that the individual is limited...but the species is wise...

Unfortunately, as has been stated by others, ever more and more there is a mindset that will -- by mandate if neccessary -- impose their own self-annointed visions upon the rest of us.

I mean THL.. that our founding fathers left to us the land to be cared for,, not used and exploited to the point our land and our waterways are now so polluted, that much cannot be used.. For that, they would be turning over in their graves.. They would be turning over in their graves to see plastic bags littering their land.... They would wonder what happened to the human species that we would even need a law to begin with to do what we should be able to do freely... But too many are not going to take care of the land,, they will continue to polute with plastic bags.. That is why I said, in an ideal world.. In an ideal world, everyone would just by their own volution, stop using them,, but many will not... Hence the need for it seems, more and more legislation,,, I do not like it any more than you do, but I dislike more, the lack of concern of far too many..

Given the state of the world at this point, with the disaster of the economy,, I will not at this time discuss the wisdom of the species..

Finally your comment of imposing What is the big deal anyway,,, it is only getting rid of something that is proven not to be good for us... If not for us, then how about for our children... Read something not long ago, for the parents or grandparents here.. " do you think your grandchildren would forgive you for NOT taking care of the world that will be handed down to them" Yes, I am an idealist,and I believe in the best in humans.. But some humans like it or not, ,Do not know or care what is best, for the masses, only what is the best and easiest for them... Those are the ones that cause so damned many legislation and laws we do not care for..

[redclay45]

Well, darn,, tried editing my above comments, but cannot seem to . .It is TexasReb, not THL.. and my last comment did not show up TexasReb... I wanted to say,, naw, do not see you as a smart$$$,, just someone interesting to have on line chat with..