Houston vs. Dallas (Fort Worth, Arlington, Grand Prairie: malls, suburbs, office)

[R1070]

Well the difference between the 3rd and 4th largest cities is roughly 500-600k people.

The difference between the 3rd and 4th largest metros is 3 million.

little bit of a difference.

I believe the point he was trying to make is that a lot of Houston posters give Houston such high marks because the actual city itself is so much larger, but when you break it down it doesn't compare. Which brings me back to my point that it doesn't matter how much larger the Houston city limits are than Dallas or how many more people they can fit within that larger boundary because it is all about Metro numbers these days.

[First24]

Originally Posted by Trae713

No, you definitely feel like you're leaving one city, or one metro, and entering another. There are many break ups in density when traveling around DFW. Going west from Dallas on 30 or 20, you definitely see the difference. Come on now, we are talking about two separate major cities that just happen to be close to each other. There will be differences. You dont get the same feelings in Houston.

What you're describing sounds more like the relationship between D.C. and Baltimore.

When I used to live in D.C., most everything was separate from Baltimore. We had separate T.V. and radio stations, pro teams, airports and very different economies, as D.C. is obviously a government city and Baltimore is primarily a port city. The people do not share many common traits and seldom relate with one another. Believe it or not, Baltimore even has a signifcantly varied dialect from D.C. only 38 miles away!

Fort Worth and Dallas each have very distinctive core areas with a few cultural variations; the MSA shares almost everything and has a lot of common traits. It feels like one big metro area.

[Nairobi]

Originally Posted by R1070

Well the difference between the 3rd and 4th largest cities is roughly 500-600k people.

The difference between the 3rd and 4th largest metros is 3 million.

little bit of a difference.

Not when you factor in the common ratio between city proper and metro. With dallasboi's reasoning, Jacksonville should be the most powerful city in the southeast.

I believe the point he was trying to make is that a lot of Houston posters give Houston such high marks because the actual city itself is so much larger, but when you break it down it doesn't compare. Which brings me back to my point that it doesn't matter how much larger the Houston city limits are than Dallas or how many more people they can fit within that larger boundary because it is all about Metro numbers these days.

Unless he was just joking, it didn't seem clear that he understood the irrelevance of city propers.

I do consider Houston to be the larger and more imposing metropolis, but you'll never hear me say that it's FAR ahead of Dallas. They're on the same tier, in more ways than one.

[R1070]

Originally Posted by Nairobi

Not when you factor in the common ratio between city proper and metro. With dallasboi's reasoning, Jacksonville should be the most powerful city in the southeast.

It's not!?

Unless he was just joking, it didn't seem clear that he understood the irrelevance of city propers.

I do consider Houston to be the larger and more imposing metropolis, but you'll never hear me say that it's FAR ahead of Dallas. They're on the same tier, in more ways than one.

It's not!?

[JJG]

Originally Posted by Newbe10

What is even more amusing than trash talk between those living in H-Town and Dallas is the trash talk between those in Fort Worth and Dallas. People in Dallas and Fort Worth seem to always go back and forth about which city is "better" and more important in the metroplex.

I personally like all three cities, so I can't hate on any of them.

Uh, any arguments between Dallas and Fort Worth isn't really about which city is better.

Really, when it happens, usually the words "suburb" or "inferior/superior" are the main reason behind it.

[R1070]

Originally Posted by JJG

Uh, any arguments between Dallas and Fort Worth isn't really about which city is better.

Really, when it happens, usually the words "suburb" or "inferior/superior" are the main reason behind it.

Exactly. Fort Worth is definitely not a suburb of Dallas nor is it fully functioning without Dallas either (as you see in DC/Balt area).

The suburban style expansive growth around FW does have a lot to do with the appeal of available and cheaper land for development that isn't found in the areas surrounding Dallas itself.

[Trae713]

Originally Posted by R1070

Ok well the breaks on 30 and 20 are due to geography not the fact that it's just random undeveloped countryside between two cities, like Austin and SA. So DFW isn't connected continuously along 183, 121, etc?
Contrary to popular belief I-30 is not the most traveled route East-West it is 183. Which is a big reason why the major reconstruction is taking place along it.

And even if you are driving along 20 or 30 the only small breaks are along the trinity river where there is wetlands or in areas along cedar hill that will never get developed. Its probably a mile long gap between development anyway, its not even that noticeable unless you were intentionally looking for it (to perhaps find a flaw). I seriously doubt that small gap makes people feel like they are leaving one area and entering another considering all of this takes place within the city of Grand Prairie which is an inner ring Dallas County suburb that borders both the city of Dallas and Fort Worth. Houston boosters act like when heading west out of Dallas none of that area is a part of Dallas. Are there no suburbs of Houston that aren't in Harris County? So Arlington isn't a suburb of Dallas? This whole scenario is grossly exaggerated to again make Dallas seem smaller and less important and divided.

Blame it on whatever you want, but they are still breaks. There is a definite drop off in development on 20 from Cedar Ridge to almost Carrier Road. You feel like youre leaving Dallas and entering Fort Worth west of there. This is just the way DFW developed. All you have to do is look at a density map of this place and see what im talking about. There are gaos and breaks all over the place. Compare that to Houston, where its pretty much consistent density all over. Only North Dallas is similar.

And no, Arlington is a Fort Worth suburb, no question about it. Grand Prairie is mixed.

[Exult.Q36]

Originally Posted by Trae713

Blame it on whatever you want, but they are still breaks. There is a definite drop off in development on 20 from Cedar Ridge to almost Carrier Road. You feel like youre leaving Dallas and entering Fort Worth west of there. This is just the way DFW developed. All you have to do is look at a density map of this place and see what im talking about. There are gaos and breaks all over the place. Compare that to Houston, where its pretty much consistent density all over. Only North Dallas is similar.

And no, Arlington is a Fort Worth suburb, no question about it. Grand Prairie is mixed.

Trae Houston growth is not continous. The southern half of the metro has tons of open land. I personally seen it for myself. Houston metro overall really isnt as developed as ya'll try to make it out to be.

[ClarenceBodiker]

Originally Posted by kdogg817

Trae Houston growth is not continous. The southern half of the metro has tons of open land. I personally seen it for myself. Houston metro overall really isnt as developed as ya'll try to make it out to be.

I have two friends who live inside of Houston proper, but it's far northwest Houston off of 249. It's a real nice area with nice homes, tall trees, etc., but it doesn't feel like the city at all, more like you're in a small town or the country.

[dallasboi]

Originally Posted by R1070

Well the difference between the 3rd and 4th largest cities is roughly 500-600k people.

The difference between the 3rd and 4th largest metros is 3 million.

little bit of a difference.

I believe the point he was trying to make is that a lot of Houston posters give Houston such high marks because the actual city itself is so much larger, but when you break it down it doesn't compare. Which brings me back to my point that it doesn't matter how much larger the Houston city limits are than Dallas or how many more people they can fit within that larger boundary because it is all about Metro numbers these days.

Bravo!...i couldnt have said it better than this. Nairobi this is My point exactly. I think DFW being larger than the Houston area is the hardest pill for Houstonians to swallow. I think thats the reason they try and seperate Dallas and Ft.Worth,because thats the only way Houston can win.

Oh,and Nairobi Im still waiting on Houston's list of TOD's so I can retract my statement.