Remember the Waco Siege (Vernon, Reno: tenants, live, military)

[spacecitytx]

Originally Posted by BobTex

Your not sad about that. Please! Be accurate. Sir George is a by-line and you've gotten so far off track. At least your last 3 posts in this thread that you haven't even mentioned Waco, David Koresh, or the Branch Davidian. But you did manage to climb up on that high horse! Yippee!




There's that misnomer again



Assigning inaccurate motives and inaccuracies again I see. (quote: ”all think that he was Brother Teresa and never did anything wrong.”) And never, ever, ever, ever said anything about

Those with empty quivers call folks names. Mr. Know-It-All ! Stop it, you're killin me (tongue-in-cheek . . . don't get excited)

Besides . . . I'm not a smart man but I love my Jenny!

It's funny (not funny ha ha) how you picked one line out of literally hundreds that I've written here and went off track and stayed off track. Hyper focused on one remark out of dozens of points made. Not in the gist of the topic nor even my post. *sigh* At least you had plenty of company.

I "got off track" and stayed that way because that's where my interest lay. I wasn't the one who brought Floyd's name into this...but since his name DID come up, I saw fit to comment on it...which, last I checked, is my GOD-given right to do so.

You also had that SAME right NOT to respond to said comment too, yet you continue to do so. Soooo....anything else?

[BobTex]

Originally Posted by As Above So Below...

Take some Midol and lie down. I wasn’t even talking about you.

Midol may not help my sciatica nor does lying down. NSAIDS FTW.

We don't keep Midol here at the house and I don't want the embarrassment of checking out at a retail place with it. Maybe you could ship me some of your overabundant supply??????

Maybe, also, I could do home delivery shipments hidden in with the bulk ammo, firearm parts, and bulk heirloom seeds packs. I'll consider this if you can personally guarantee pain releif by your suggested product.

[BobTex]

Originally Posted by spacecitytx

I "got off track" and stayed that way because that's where my interest lay. I wasn't the one who brought Floyd's name into this...but since his name DID come up, I saw fit to comment on it...which, last I checked, is my GOD-given right to do so.

You also had that SAME right NOT to respond to said comment too, yet you continue to do so. Soooo....anything else?

No, nothing else. Wouldn't want to belabor the points I so aptly highlighted.

Wait ... I do have something else:

I would like to give you kudos for your posts early in this thread taking your stance on the true God given right, that of self defense . . . even against aggressive, overzealous, and even militant gubmint agents.

[spacecitytx]

Originally Posted by BobTex

No, nothing else. Wouldn't want to belabor the points I so aptly highlighted.

Wait ... I do have something else:

I would like to give you kudos for your posts early in this thread taking your stance on the true God given right, that of self defense . . . even against aggressive, overzealous, and even militant gubmint agents.

On the bolded, we most definitely agree.

The problem with that is that such an action almost NEVER works out in a civilian's favor. If you absolutely KNOW that a cop is about to shoot you, and you shoot him/her first, there's pretty much NO winning that in the court of law. You either die or go to jail.

That's pretty jacked up.

[BobTex]

Originally Posted by spacecitytx

On the bolded, we most definitely agree.

The problem with that is that such an action almost NEVER works out in a civilian's favor. If you absolutely KNOW that a cop is about to shoot you, and you shoot him/her first, there's pretty much NO winning that in the court of law. You either die or go to jail.

That's pretty jacked up.

I'd probably die ... but I'm pretty old so there's that! I used to think (when I was young) that the gubmint was always right ... at least 99% of the time. Now after so many screw-ups, politicization of government entities at the highest level, and general corruptness of government at all levels I pretty much see the government as a type of huge mafia entity made up of many families. My hindsight and experiences through my lifetime influences my thinking now and is pretty much 20/20 IMHO.

They're (higher levels of Government) ripe with corruption, tend to retribution in flexing their muscle to "stand on the neck" of the little man. This is true in all phases at all levels, from law enforcement to taxing entities. It's a power game and flexing, posturing, and retribution is how they play. The poison flows from the top down too. Corruption abounds at the highest levels of Federal and state governments (our state anyway) and is not bound by party affiliation. Some are worse than others but who is measuring immorality anymore?

This is exactly what led to the Waco debacle. Even though the county sheriff (whose input seemed to be common sense and moral) was on the high ground he was swept aside by immoral flexing by federal entities who can lie of reports to cover their arses (plenty of evidence of this) and try to crush anything not aligning with their philosophies of operation. So, with this in mind the Feds acted with impunity at Waco. Their goal was to win their way and they did. Sort of a kill'em all and let God sort it out.

Was Koresh a POS? Sure he was! Crazy? probably to a point! Immoral and power hungry in his small world? Seems so! Were a bunch of his folks immersed in wrong doing? ... Almost certainly so. Were they any worse than the forces that attacked them? Probably not but again, who is making tabulations on wrongdoing? But the ones that were to be held to a higher standard failed their duties and many innocents died because of that and they (government entities) were not even held to account for their many failings on this! Sure, policies were to be changed in a CYA move. 2 wrongs NEVER make a right! Happens all the time and too many in our society sweep it under the rug or hand pick single causes to chirp about!

Our society is an immoral cesspool and continuing down that septic ditch (unless you've lived in the country you may not understand that last little bit). Government is a reflection of society in general but magnified because of the lack of true safeguards.

Waco is remembered.

I burned my soapbox !

[Pilsn3r]

This just came up yesterday from a Ft. Worth author. Take it with whatever grain you want.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/hi...d-9ef5fa88cb59

30 years later, Fort Worth author finds new details from Branch Davidian saga
[a few excerpts from the article]

“Facts still matter,” said Jeff Guinn. "We live in a time when people ignore the ones inconvenient to them.”
After writing books on other famous cult leaders Jim Jones and Charles Manson, Guinn spent more than two years researching David Koresh, the Branch Davidians and the Waco saga.
------
Among the most surprising revelations to Guinn was ATF agents admitting the siege focused on the task of removing the weapons inside the compound but failed to explore the religious beliefs of the Branch Davidians.
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Had they understood the group’s beliefs, they would have known Koresh and his followers welcomed the bloodshed. From his interviews with surviving sect members, they felt the raid fulfilled a prophecy.
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But it was another unexpected discovery that left Guinn astonished.
“We found definitive proof that David Koresh plagiarized all his major prophecies,” Guinn told WFAA.
As for the “Legacy of Rage” referenced in the title, Guinn believes what happened in Waco can be used to fit any agenda, any theory, or whatever political opinion a person or group wants to make either against the government or organized religion.
------
As he puts it, conspiracy theories and now a conspiracy industry, yet that does not make any of the theories true.
“There was never a conspiracy," Guinn said. "There was human fallibility, and it was tragic but we cannot make this something it was not. The conspiracy theories are convenient but absolutely absurd.”

So true about the conspiracy theories - on full display by the usual in the entirety of Politics and Texas forums especially.

[atadytic19]

I watched the Netflix Documentary Wednesday.
It was pretty good at showcasing interviews from both sides of the argument.

Blame can be thrown all around the place, but key takeaway is this: the Branch Davidians had started to release the kids two at a time and could have continued to do so.

It looks like the fire was purposely set by the Branch Davidians and while some chose to not die and walked out, others chose to die.

We can whine and blame the government all we want but facts are facts. Those kids died because of David Koresh and his followers and only because of them.

He could have released those kids at any point in those 50 days. When the fires started the kids could have been released , but the brainwashed fools chose to drink the kool-aid and took the kids with them.

Any discussion of the ATF did this and the ATF could have done that is just smoke screens and illusions to obscure the fact that THEY COULD HAVE WALKED OUT AT ANY TIME BUT THEY CHOSE TO DIE. How are you going to blame one group for another's choice to die?

[usc619]

Originally Posted by atadytic19

I watched the Netflix Documentary Wednesday.
It was pretty good at showcasing interviews from both sides of the argument.

Blame can be thrown all around the place, but key takeaway is this: the Branch Davidians had started to release the kids two at a time and could have continued to do so.

It looks like the fire was purposely set by the Branch Davidians and while some chose to not die and walked out, others chose to die.

We can whine and blame the government all we want but facts are facts. Those kids died because of David Koresh and his followers and only because of them.

He could have released those kids at any point in those 50 days. When the fires started the kids could have been released , but the brainwashed fools chose to drink the kool-aid and took the kids with them.

Any discussion of the ATF did this and the ATF could have done that is just smoke screens and illusions to obscure the fact that THEY COULD HAVE WALKED OUT AT ANY TIME BUT THEY CHOSE TO DIE. How are you going to blame one group for another's choice to die?

As the old saying goes… there’s a fool born every minute. Unfortunately David hit the jackpot.

[usc619]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

Funny, black man resists arrests and is killed, and it is 'he shouldn't have resisted'.

BDs resist and are killed and it is 'poor people didn't do anything wrong'

Doesn't make either right or wrong, but is an interesting difference....

lol, ain’t that the truth

[SanyBelle]

February 28: Waco siege begins with the aborted ATF raid

April 19: Final siege of the compound beings, ending in fiery deaths

I'm watching the new Netflix documentary, today is the 30th anniversary of the final siege so I'm thinking about this a lot this week.

I had a client in Waco during this siege, I travelled there once a month (Sunday evening-Thursday evening) from Jan 1993 to probably April 1994. I was there both weeks listed above but I am a little fuzzy on remembering the exact details, I guess because it's now 30 years later.

I used to fly into Waco on small 19 seat propeller planes. I do remember it being me and 18 ATF and FBI armed agents. They were staying at the hotel I stayed in, they were in the restaurants for lunch/dinner.

The client said we were in a 3rd floor room watching the fire from a conference room, I don't remember this. They said I was afraid to tell my mother where I was because I didn't want her to worry.

A lot of innocent people died that day. RIP.