Hard data on my experience with the women of Seattle (hairstylist, live)

[Bimmerfanboy]

Originally Posted by treuphax

Thank you for the thoughtful response. I appreciate you taking my challenges seriously. I wish I could say it was more helpful. I'm already more than familiar with so-called "red-pill" game theory. Theory is quite different from practice... and practice requires practice. Lacking opportunity and targets for my charms unfortunately means I don't get much practice though. Whether the male - female ratio is terrible is one question. But in the situations I'm finding myself, the single women at the center of these feeding frenzies even aren't very inspiring. One case in particular comes to mind, one woman who was flirting shamelessly with the seven or eight fellows surrounding her. She seemed more "easy" or slutty than attractive. She explained that she loves Seattle singles scene because there are so many moneyed fools ready to spoil her. She's even engaged to marry one of those unfortunate foolish wealthy workhorses. After the tallest, best dressed and best dancing fellow among us schlepped her away into the night, we who remained had to be asking ourselves silently if this is what Seattle has to offer single men. More often than not the woman at the center of the feeding frenzy will clearly be a completely inappropriate match... perhaps a tattooed hipster party-girl or a rock-climbing extreme athlete for example... The age thing is also a total problem for me to get my head around. I've had plenty of positive interest from 40 and 50 something divorced women but that doesn't interest me because of my natural instincts and desire to have children. On the other end there have been quite a few women who seemed inappropriately young, whom I refrained from hitting on aggressively. Maybe I just need to get over myself and not worry about seeming like a creep? I appreciate any feedback on how to think about relating to the younger ones. It's not that I never encounter charming age-appropriate wholesome women who to have solid character and values. So far in my experience here these are not available and have already found their fellow and have settled down in a family way.

You call me a hopeless beta. For you it may be a slur, but I embrace the title. A society can't survive with only alpha males. It is an ephemeral position subject to constant competition and struggle... indeed a life that is nasty, brutish and short. I try not to concern myself with how any of the clowns label me. I've got to answer to me and my own conscience. If being a bastard or a jerk is what it takes to charm these immature twits, how could I ever respect them for falling for that? It wouldn't be worth my effort. If the single female population is comprised primarily of such immature twits that fall for that, that's Seattle's problem (and probably a problem in general throughout 21st century American culture). My style of "game" based on sincerity and maturity sure worked great while I was living in Europe but just may not be appropriate to this culture. But that was a different time and place.

I understand that just like looks, intelligence and charm; game is a gift men are unequally endowed with. So maybe my game sucks. Maybe it can be improved. Dating in Seattle may be awful for thirtysomething fellows. But if we can make it here, we can probably make it anywhere. I don't mind learning and modifying my approach. The confidence I have to go along with my sense of maturity and sincerity could be tweaked after all. If that works, great. Becoming a bastard? Probably not worth the change

Only if we waste too much time trying here, we may become too old, bitter and hopeless to make it elsewhere.

Some of my friends who do great with women are "alpha" in different ways from the traditional dumb d-bag jock stereotype. Since they lift they make a good first impression to women (alpha trait), and when you talk to them they are confident and witty (alpha traits). However, they are still nice dudes who are career-oriented and are not losers. I think that what women want most are (a) physical attractiveness and (b) confidence. Being confident does not mean that you have to be a d-bag.

[butalwaysremember]

Originally Posted by Chris Meyers

Common affliction among Seattle men actually. You're not alone. If you know anything about human nature and evolution you would have realized this without effort. You are so stereotypically beta male in that response, that you are classic Seattle. It doesnt work with women. You might think you're nice, you might think you are polite, but that sh* does not fly in attracting female mates in a physical sense. Period. Thousands of years of evolution arent going to alter for women to find that attractive, its not. Reading your response and your activity list trying to meet women is just sad. If you want to be the one guy in your feeding frenzy scenario you mention, be a man. Go up to her with some confidence and you would be the one picked. Your trying way too hard, and they can sense that too. If you want something you as the man have to push it forward. Making one date into more, going from first to second and third base. Girls are never going to overtly tell you, they have the exact opposite evolutionary reaction to that and you are expected to do and push for those things. And youll find the more confident you are in doing those, the more they will be yours for whatever it is youre going for.

Seattle is where I learned that feminism will never work because women are too passive and literally are unable to state and voice what they want. The entire city is full of a bunch of "strong" women who expect to do well in careers, but who also expect men to lead.

It's so ****ing...sad...

Someone mentioned the women being unapproachable, or suspicious and afraid. That's my experience as well. What it is, is that they expect a very good looking, wealthy, confident and fun man to approach them, like a movie star in character but toned down, so when actual humans approach them, it's disorienting and scary.

And yes, don't crack jokes because they don't fly here.

[DP79]

Originally Posted by Chris Meyers

Common affliction among Seattle men actually. You're not alone. If you know anything about human nature and evolution you would have realized this without effort. You are so stereotypically beta male in that response, that you are classic Seattle. It doesnt work with women. You might think you're nice, you might think you are polite, but that sh* does not fly in attracting female mates in a physical sense. Period. Thousands of years of evolution arent going to alter for women to find that attractive, its not. Reading your response and your activity list trying to meet women is just sad. If you want to be the one guy in your feeding frenzy scenario you mention, be a man. Go up to her with some confidence and you would be the one picked. Your trying way too hard, and they can sense that too. If you want something you as the man have to push it forward. Making one date into more, going from first to second and third base. Girls are never going to overtly tell you, they have the exact opposite evolutionary reaction to that and you are expected to do and push for those things. And youll find the more confident you are in doing those, the more they will be yours for whatever it is youre going for.

In Seattle you can actually be less of an alpha male ("A-minus" perhaps?) than other places and still pick up a lot of chicks because all the other dudes are such raging pus*ies there. So if you're having trouble meeting women, you're not only a beta male, you're pretty much at the bottom of the litter and will be screwed no matter where you go. Take testosterone or something bro.

[umropantelija]

I have been many places around the globe and I can confidently say Seattle is the absolute worst place for dating anywhere I've been for both men and women alike. It is a cultural phenomenon.

Here vast majority of women are competing for a small number of what they perceive desirable men who in turn, because of the offerings they receive, can not handle to stay with just one and continue being promiscuous which drives those after them absolutely crazy. Darwin's market chase.

[RotseCherut]

Originally Posted by umropantelija

I have been many places around the globe and I can confidently say Seattle is the absolute worst place for dating anywhere I've been for both men and women alike. It is a cultural phenomenon.

Here vast majority of women are competing for a small number of what they perceive desirable men who in turn, because of the offerings they receive, can not handle to stay with just one and continue being promiscuous which drives those after them absolutely crazy. Darwin's market chase.

That sounds like the story in just about every city in the US and Canada. I am not saying Seattle's dating scene doesn't suck, but in general most women compete over that same, "PERFECT GUY", who makes their long list of superficial expectations. And, of course, all the studly men who rack up the females, will just go banging these naive ladies one by one and dumping them. Then, lo and behold, most of these women end up mesmerized when they learn that Mr. Perfect was not head over heels in love with them overall..

Anyway, dating men or women in the Western world is never going to lead to any long term spiritual and unbreakable bond as our Hollywood films would make us perceive. Usually, it is broken marriages, relationships that people try to keep together or people go and find someone else. Relationships are pretty much business contracts here and not spiritual bonds.

Seattle is not so much different, in that respect, from other cities in the USA.. If you want a spiritual marriage go East and I do not mean, the East Coast. Travel to a place where spirituality, culture and traditions are still strong. Become a religious Hindu, Eastern Christian, Jew, ZOroastrian, Buddhist, Pagan or whatever other spiritual belief system suits you and find somebody with a like mind who can find a spiritual connection to you.

If that's not on the agenda, prepare for superficial, business-like western dating with lots of drama and BS. Seattle perhaps is a bit worse, but not significantly. The yuppie and liberal nature of Seattle will definitely amplify the superficial nature of relationships, but not bolster it to a significant degree over other cosmopolitan western cities.

[BATCAT]

Amazing.

[Aquamarineblue]

"Seattle is not so much different, in that respect, from other cities in the USA.. If you want a spiritual marriage go East and I do not mean, the East Coast. Travel to a place where spirituality, culture and traditions are still strong. Become a religious Hindu, Eastern Christian, Jew, ZOroastrian, Buddhist, Pagan or whatever other spiritual belief system suits you and find somebody with a like mind who can find a spiritual connection to you."

Alternatively just attend some Catholic young adult functions around the Puget Sound region for those that take their faith seriously. Newman Center at the UDub, Blessed Sacrament the Dominican Parish in the UDistrict or Holy Family, Kirkland are all good options. Lots of strong and happy marriages coming out of those places.

[RotseCherut]

Originally Posted by Aquamarineblue

Alternatively just attend some Catholic young adult functions around the Puget Sound region for those that take their faith seriously. Newman Center at the UDub, Blessed Sacrament the Dominican Parish in the UDistrict or Holy Family, Kirkland are all good options. Lots of strong and happy marriages coming out of those places.

It's a great idea for those who are practicing Catholics.. The Catholic culture and religion can be very strong even in the Western world, being an ancient Western religion. They will probably have much more meaningful relationships with the people they meet within their religious community than just trying to hookup with strangers or people at meetup groups or random events. Outside of a spiritual (or at least cultural) community you truly know nothing of the other person's spirituality or core of belief values.

[evda]

Holy moly, you are a sad lot.

[FrankSpencer]

Originally Posted by evda

Holy moly, you are a sad lot.

agreed - this thread needs to die