Were things in the past really that bad for women? (screaming, payments)
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Not to mention The Rolling Stones' "Mother's Little Helper".
My mother was given Valium. She had four kids by 30 and was very depressed at that point in her life. (Unfortunately, I was child No. 4 and was somewhat affected by her mental state in my early life.) She went to the doctor and told her she was having a hard time keeping up with having a disabled husband, four kids, the housework, etc., and some days she felt as though she couldn't even get out of bed and couldn't stop crying. The doctor gave her a prescription for Valium. After a few days she flushed them down the toilet because it just made things worse.
I had four kids by my 22nd b'day. I didn't have time to get depressed or even think about much except what I was doing/had to do. I DID get exhausted, eventually, and the husband did squat. He wasn't disabled. He was hardly ever there, working second shift, drinking half the night after work, sleeping till time to eat and get ready for work again. My days ran from 6 AM to 11 PM. At some point, when the youngest was about 18 mos., I couldn't take anymore and wanted to leave him. I even went to the Welfare office and asked for help. After listening to me I was told that I really didn't want to leave my husband, I just needed a vacation! No, I just really needed his help!
Not Saudi bad but not good. Most jokes I heard were deragatory sexual jokes. If they weren't sexual they were of a hare brained stupid variety. Like most jokes on tv by famous comedians made fun of women. And that whole "if I'm the one paying the bills you'll gd do what I say" thing was the norm and hard meant. Women had zero voice. And then women started to work but their men stayed the same, they didn't care about women bring home money they were still the man of the house.
Oh yea, it was bad. How many times did I have some guy reach out his hand as I walked by, in a restaurant, bar, at work. More serious things I'm not going into and no never reported. Eech. And it hasn't changed, just gone underground.
Boy, does that line bring back a memory for me! I tried to get my, then, husband to open a checking account and let me pay the bills. He told me, in no uncertain terms, "I MAKE the money and I'll SPEND the money." Okay. He once gave me $5 and told me to spend it on myself and if I spent it on the kids I'd never get another dime. I went to the 88 cent store and bought training pants for my toddler. I never got another dime. He also announced, fairly early on in the marriage, that HE was the "king" of his castle and what he said was what went. I dealt with him for eight years.
At one point in my life I worked three jobs and one of those was waitressing at our local dance hall on Fri. and Sat. nights. For the most part the men were okay and no problem for me till the night one of them smacked me on the rear. I turned so fast I dumped an entire tray of drinks in his lap! LOL
I read that book not long after it came out and never could understand how, and why, women could be so depressed they needed 'a pill' to 'get over it'. I got married in Mar. 1961 and lived in a small town on the Oregon coast. Now, that might be why neither I, or any of my friends, seemed to have any problems with depression or being unhappy in our lives. We were all living the life we thought was 'expected' of us and we liked it. Even if we had wanted to go out to work there was very little for women in our small town. The schools, hospitals, offices, etc. but not that many to go around. Most of us worked a 'little job' right out of high school, knowing we'd be getting married at some point and raising a family, so nobody had any goals in mind or was particularly 'ambitious'. We did have one friend who went to work for the post office and she, eventually, retired from there. Nobody thought anything about it, nobody criticized or thought less of her for it. Nobody envied her either. Maybe the women who needed the antidepressants were more sophisticated than we were and did have goals and ambitions.
Or maybe they had bad marriages and poor prospects if they left, or never really even wanted to be a mom but felt like they had no choice. I'm sure both were true for many women in the past. Many gay men AND women married into hetero marriages back then too, so that may be a factor as well.
Its really about choosing your life, not just being happy or unhappy in the one you feel compelled to live.
Feminists always talk about how horrible it was for women in the past. Now I am talking say 40s, 50s, 60s or so. I know there is a history forum but I would like to hear some thoughts from women who have first-hand experience. Was it really as bad as feminists say it was for women? Would you say it was Afghanistan/Saudi Arabia bad?
My grandmother graduated from Harvard in the early 30s. She had a masters and enjoyed a career when she and my grandfather were first married. A year after her marriage, she was fired from her job because her boss felt that she need more time to focus on getting pregnant. She wasn't even given the courtesy of waiting until she decided to have children to be forced out and she had no recourse. Additionally, when she became married, all of her checks were then written in my grandfather's name. So yes, there were negatives, and all of this while she benefited from the privilege of being born to an upper middle class family from New England. It would have been so much worse without that.
That's great and I'm sure my mother, who was a SAHM, felt the same way. She and my Dad had a great marriage and were partners in the true sense of the word.
However, not all women were in good marriages. If a woman had no way to support herself, she had to stay. If a woman didn't want to get married at all, it was much more difficult for her to earn a good living (above minimum wage) and be independent. If a woman was passionate about something that was a typically male-dominated field, it was difficult for her to follow her passion. For me, it's all about giving women a choice.
That's exactly what I grew up with. My parents were partners in their marriage, although my dad usually got his way and I don't recall him making any bad decisions for him, my mom, their relationship and family. When, around age 40, he started his own business(s), she was right there, working alongside of him in every way. She did work, now and then, mostly in sewing factory jobs but only when it was 'financially necessary' and usually not longer than a year or so. I think she did that three times during my growing up years. Because this is what I grew up with, and saw the same in my aunts and uncles as well, I thought that was how ALL marriages were. Imagine my shock when I found out differently!
Boy, does that line bring back a memory for me! I tried to get my, then, husband to open a checking account and let me pay the bills. He told me, in no uncertain terms, "I MAKE the money and I'll SPEND the money." Okay. He once gave me $5 and told me to spend it on myself and if I spent it on the kids I'd never get another dime. I went to the 88 cent store and bought training pants for my toddler. I never got another dime. He also announced, fairly early on in the marriage, that HE was the "king" of his castle and what he said was what went. I dealt with him for eight years.
At one point in my life I worked three jobs and one of those was waitressing at our local dance hall on Fri. and Sat. nights. For the most part the men were okay and no problem for me till the night one of them smacked me on the rear. I turned so fast I dumped an entire tray of drinks in his lap! LOL
I just don't understand this. I'm not saying it didn't happen and I'm not being critical of you but it's as though you had no idea who the man was you married and if you did know, you didn't care and married him anyway.
It sounds like you married a complete stranger and had no idea what his personality was like and how controlling he was. I don't understand. It's as though you lived in the 1700s and your marriage was arranged and you had absolutely no choice.
I just don't understand this. I'm not saying it didn't happen and I'm not being critical of you but it's as though you had no idea who the man was you married and if you did know, you didn't care and married him anyway.
It sounds like you married a complete stranger and had no idea what his personality was like and how controlling he was. I don't understand. It's as though you lived in the 1700s and your marriage was arranged and you had absolutely no choice.
These things and many others you have read in this thread happened because people didn't talk about this stuff before marriage. Most people assumed marriage was like their parents' marriages. They just took it for granted that that's how it would work. Then 2 people get together and find out they had very different parents, and a very different idea about how things should be.
There is also a difference in how people behave during courtship and how they behave after marriage.
I just don't understand this. I'm not saying it didn't happen and I'm not being critical of you but it's as though you had no idea who the man was you married and if you did know, you didn't care and married him anyway.
It sounds like you married a complete stranger and had no idea what his personality was like and how controlling he was. I don't understand. It's as though you lived in the 1700s and your marriage was arranged and you had absolutely no choice
For the most part people didn't date as long as they do now. I think a lot of couples were married before they had time to really know the other person. You don't really know someone until you have lived with them for awhile.
I just don't understand this. I'm not saying it didn't happen and I'm not being critical of you but it's as though you had no idea who the man was you married and if you did know, you didn't care and married him anyway.
It sounds like you married a complete stranger and had no idea what his personality was like and how controlling he was. I don't understand. It's as though you lived in the 1700s and your marriage was arranged and you had absolutely no choice.
He was absolutely nothing like that before we got married. I had no idea he would end up treating me like one of his kids, rather than a wife. I was very young and thought marriage would be like my parents marriage was. Even his family never understood how/why he was so controlling. I was afraid of him, I can admit that. Not from the beginning but a couple years down the road. It made him mad that I was afraid of him but he kept doing things to keep me that way. You are probably correct in that I didn't know him very well. Only what he showed of himself prior and that was all good. Besides, he was given custody of his baby when he divorced his first wife so he must be a good guy, right??
He was absolutely nothing like that before we got married. I had no idea he would end up treating me like one of his kids, rather than a wife. I was very young and thought marriage would be like my parents marriage was. Even his family never understood how/why he was so controlling. I was afraid of him, I can admit that. Not from the beginning but a couple years down the road. It made him mad that I was afraid of him but he kept doing things to keep me that way. You are probably correct in that I didn't know him very well. Only what he showed of himself prior and that was all good. Besides, he was given custody of his baby when he divorced his first wife so he must be a good guy, right??
Thank you for your honest response. I was honestly trying to understand how this could happen.
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