How to deal with the non-noisy neighbors? (apartments, lease, evicted)

[Angel4]

Hello everyone. I've been searching around the internet a bit and can't seem to find an answer that fits what I'm looking for. I need some advice.

First, my situation. My children and I recently moved into a townhouse (Jan 2011). I didn't realize how thin the walls were until after I have moved in (only saw the apartment during the work day). So thin, in fact, that during an apartment turn-over I could even hear the workmen talking while painting the hallway in that unit. I couldn't hear what they said but you get the point of how thin the walls are. It was one of my major complaints (to friends) shortly after I moved in.

Recently, I received a phone call from my management company stating that my neighbor (not named) had written a letter complaining about excessive noise. I felt really bad and apologized profusely. But now as the days go on I feel like I can't really live my life. I'm constantly worried about getting another complaint. I've come to realize that my children aren't really that loud. I'm not saying the neighbors didn't have a valid complaint... just saying that paying closer attention to the noise levels I find that there really isn't anything out of the ordinary. I just retired from the military and my things aren't arriving until next week so for the last two months we've had one TV in the living room and no radios anywhere in the house so there are no wild parties or music late into the night. Since I was in the military, I'm very used to living in townhouses with very stringent rules on noise. I'm aware of what noises are acceptable and what aren't and I've never had any complaints like this in the 15 years I've had children. Again, not saying my children are never loud... they are at times. They are kids. I try to control that as much as possible because honestly I don't want to hear bickering teens or loud video games in my own home. And I especially don't want damage or dirt stains on the walls from feet or hands because I'm the one that has to clean or fix that so any banging that may occur would be rare and accidental. My older children are school age and in bed by 930pm and out of the house by 8AM. I'm a night owl but I don't watch TV much and anything I do watch late at night is in bed on the laptop (with earphones) since the one TV we have is downstairs in the living room. Again, not saying I never walk up and down the stairs or have to run to the store (thus opening the garage) after 930... but just pointing out that I'm not hiring a band every Saturday night. The only real excessive noise is my two year old who is currently going through the terrible twos... she can get very loud when she has the occasional eruption. This is not an every day, all day kind of occurance... but she does like to sing to whatever show is on Nick Jr... and okay, she does giggle/laugh awfully loud... but no balls against the walls or anything like that. She is in bed by 8pm everynight.

So here is where the advice comes in... I'm afraid my neighbors are going to complain and complain if they are already complaining two months in... Management told me that if I get three notices my lease will not be renewed or I will be evicted. And right now... I'm already tired of tip-toeing around my townhouse after a week. Please, do not tell me to move. That's not an option. It's not a matter of not having the money to move or anything like that... I just moved every 15 months while in the military due to work and I'm tired of moving! I would just like to be in one place for a few years and these are the nicest rentals around. Plus I'm worried that if they non-renew my lease it might hurt my ability to rent elsewhere (I'm only in the area I am as I promised my oldest we could stay until she graduates high school and I do not want to buy here).

So what do I do? I'm not an unreasonable person but I'm afraid they are since they took the time to write management a letter but yet never once knocked on my door. Had they done so... I would have felt guilty and apologized profusely and most importantly... known EXACTLY what noise was bothering them... then stopped it.

Any advice on how to handle this? (on a side note... I am friendly with one of my neighbors so I know it wasn't them and the other side neighbors won't acknowledge me when I so much as wave or smile at them... so no luck so far talking to them).

[manderly6]

What if you talk with the management company and dispute you are being too loud. It seems pretty harsh that someone can just complain and get you kicked out. Heck, you can just get any neighbor you don't like kicked out by complaining 3 times.

[Angel4]

Manderly, I did ask that question. I wanted to know what options I had in case they continued to complain to the management company. I was (am) very concerned that they weren't courteous enough to knock on my door before taking the time to write to management considering how short a time I've been living here. The only answer I got (from management) was that "they did not have complainers" therefore implying it must be a valid complaint. She then went on to tell me about the three incident rule and stated that she hoped this would be an isolated incident. The neighbors in question are a young couple with no children and this particular unit was a corporate apartment before me (which means no children) so I just don't think they are used to having anyone active living next door. I'm not going to badmouth them but they make noise as well... but in my mind, I chose to live in an apartment/townhouse setting so noise comes with it... it doesn't really bother me. I'd just like to smooth the situation over and let it rest but I honestly don't know how. I was hoping some people with this experience (but on the opposite side) would give me constructive advice on how to placate my neighbors without gagging my children and bubblewrapping the stairs.

[manderly6]

I guess I would try and talk with them. It couldn't hurt.

[lawmom]

I feel for you -- that is an awful feeling to feel you have to walk on egg shells constantly in your own home. It sounds like you are certainly thoughtful enough and are a responsible parent, but the fact of the matter is, when you live in apartments/town homes/condos, there will be noise, with or without kids.

A couple of thoughts: Like Manderly suggested, stop by and talk with your neighbors. Tell them you know of their complaint and that you are doing everything possible to ameliorate the situation. Tell them you wanted to talk to them to get specifics about what is bothering them so you know more how to help the situation. Explain that in all the years you've lived in townhomes you have never once had a complaint, and that you noticed that the walls are exceedingly thin, giving the example of the workers' voices. Make the visit nice and friendly and, just like you've done here, impart to them the fact that you are a responsible parent and do not want problems.

Another idea is that I know people sometimes put up fabric wall treatments to help dampen noise -- perhaps that might help on the shared walls.

[Angel4]

Lawmom, Thank you so much for the fabric treatment idea... I will try it actually! I think the main issue is my apartment is empty so all sounds resonate... there is no furniture to absorb the sounds and we've been snowed in more this winter than my children are used to. Thankfully, our things get here on Friday so hopefully full rooms will help.

As for speaking with them, I mentioned in my first post that they won't acknowledge me... this includes when I knock on their door.

I know this post seems a bit pointless but I was actually hoping someone who was annoyed by the kids next door might post and say "A and B would have made happy" or "I can deal with A noise at this hour". Something like that...

[Lacerta]

I would just like to say that you sound like you are being very reasonable and adult in the way you are handling this. I would agree that the next step would be to talk to any neighbors (sounds like you know which one this was, but don't count out the one you are friends with. We have had neighbors who like each other complain to us anonymously before) in the same calm, rational way you have here. Do NOT go on the attack, but do see if you can get specifics from them on whether it is noise at a certain time of day that is bothering them, or a certain type of noise in particular, or noise in a certain part of the house. That may help you address a fix. Since you can't know FOR SURE which neighbor complained, definitely don't be too aggressive. If you are very very sure it isn't the one you are friendly with, you could ask that one if they think the noise is too loud, and if not, get them to put in a word with management for you. If they say it sometimes gets loud, maybe they can help you with how and when.

*Edit* Just saw your last post, and yes, furniture will likely help absorb some of the noise. And if you've already tried knocking on their door to talk to them and aren't having any luck, I would let the landlord know they are being uncooperative, and see if he can intervene and find out specifics for you. Let him know you tried to resolve it yourself, but are unable to do so. Don't threaten, but let him know that if you don't know what the problem is, you can't fix it, and there may be future complaints, that are beyond your control.

[lawmom]

I missed the part of them not answering the door. Perhaps a letter under the door outlining the above? Let them know that you are getting your furniture and that should help and are seeking other remedies, however, the next time they have an issue with you that you would like them to have the courtesy to speak with you directly first. I wonder if you could also ask mgt to see the letter (probably not), or at least write a response for their file where you explain that you've tried to speak with the neighbors to ascertain exactly what noises they are hearing so you can fix it as best you can, and that they have been uncooperative.

In my passive-aggressive fantasies I would throw tennis balls against the shared walls all night long since they seem like jerks. LOL -- I would NEVER do that in a million years, nor should anyone, but it's fun to think about.

[Angel4]

Thank you both for your responses. I have tried to approach both sets of neighbors but neither admits to writing any such letter. I have to admit now that it makes me feel crazy LOL (I mean wondering who complained).

And yes, I try to handle everything in the most responsible manner. I think 20 years in the military taught me that or at the very least made me too afraid to break the rules. LOL I'm joking but I was raised to be courteous to others no matter what. This is why it is so upsetting me that someone complained about noise. I've had horrible noisy neighbors not been THE horrible neighbor. And even in those situations I usually found that if I spoke directly to the person (nicely) they apologized and it didn't happen again.


I was wondering about the letter and whether or not I could see it legally. I did some online research and did find that if it was merely the

[greggd1]

I read your situation. Have you thought about installing a material on the common wall that will absorb sound. I know this was mentioned previously, but Im referring to a specific sound deadening material.

Ive seen some sound rooms where they do egg crates on the wall then add another layer over them. I dont know if you want to flip that kind of money or the cost but it may be an option.

I hired a sound engineering co to advise me on what material to use under a hardwood floor and they were super helpful. Some of the things that you would assume can reduce sound can actually make it worse and vis versa..

Try calling a sound engineering co and they may offer a simple generic suggestion over the phone to you for free. They are professionals &
will offer non-specific advise to you. Or you can check out some books at the library. You have a very common problem...thin wall, need to reduce sound transmission. There should be literature on this to help explain how sound waves travel and what blocks them.