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Well, unfortunately, MG, I know about this situation first hand. When I was 14, my father was murdered. I don't know. It just wasn't something that consumed me with bitterness and anger. I didn't really think as much about the killer as with the loss of my father. Kinda like you only have room for so much emotion. Maybe it helped too that the killer was not Identified until about 10 years later. At that time, he was doing time in prison for something else. I think he plea bargained and got about 10 years.
Bottom line, though, looking back on it I think it was God's grace that helped me deal with it and forgive. Really, I think it kinda had to be because I do sometimes struggle with forgiveness. I've struggled with forgiveness even of a high school algebra teacher I felt mistreated me! So I think that in the instance of the murder of my father it was pure grace and mercy that enabled me not to struggle to forgive.
How tragic for you and your family Kaykay. I can't imagine my father being murdered.
Although, my uncle died a very mysterious death although it was never proven as murder. It was hard enough that he was gone. Yet, through out the years there have been rumors that a certain person did murder him.
I won't get into detail for personal reasons, but I'm in a similar situation. I could never forgive the person. That is something that I will have to take up with God if and when I get there.
For those that have suffered loses, I wish you peace and strength to cope with it.
My condolences on your loss. I also wish you peace and strength to deal with it too.
It will be Gods position to judge when the killers time comes. Although I have never had to deal with this (and hope not too, all of you as well) I would like to think that I could forgive this person. It would be horrible to go the rest of your life full of hate for one person. However, I do not know if I could forgive. Hope none of us ever find out.
I am so sorry to hear about your inlaws and the horrible circumstances they have been faced with. I can't even begin to imagine what it must be like to not only lose a loved one to murder (or potential murder), but to lose the daughter because of it would just add even MORE insult to the injury! I pray that the person responsible will be found out some day (in THIS life). I know that you are Atheist, but I do hope you AND your family can have some comfort in the "thought" that God will pass His judgement on the person responsible!
I think this would be the ULTIMATE test for any Christian! I'm not saying that it wouldn't be difficult for non-believers, that IS NOT what I am saying at all! But for believers, we are told to FORGIVE "seventy times seven" and no where have I ever found any conditions put on our forgiveness
Matthew 18:21-22
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
But I will have to say this MontanaGuy...those Amish people in Pennsylvania are God' PERFECT example of how we SHOULD forgive and how we SHOULD move on and still trust in Him...Can you imagine how hard it must have been on these people? I remember being in tears when I heard about them forgiving the man responsible as well as supporting his widow!
Although it seems completely unfathomable to be able to forgive the people that do these things...ultimately, in order for us to truly have peace within ourselves this is what we MUST strive for.
Sorry but if it were my family member or loved one that was killed, I am 90% sure that I would not be able to forgive them. This would especially be true if it were someone like my little brother or my future children. I would be willing to endure whatever consequences or suffering---spiritual or actual---of me slashing the killer piece by piece--alive--with a pocket knife. No one messes with my family.
When my husband's sister died in a car accident when she was 30 yo (11 years ago), I remember my husband's other sister saying that dealing w/ a sudden death would only be worse in one circumstance....if their sister was murdered.
I know the correct christian answer is to forgive. Forgiveness of this kind of violent crime would most likely be a process....a process only possible with God's grace. There are soooo many steps towards forgivenes....anger, rage, sadness, grief and loss....finally acceptance and closure. It may take a long time to work towards authentic forgiveness.
Forgiveness is the goal......achieving this may take more than just saying the words.
When my husband's sister died in a car accident when she was 30 yo (11 years ago), I remember my husband's other sister saying that dealing w/ a sudden death would only be worse in one circumstance....if their sister was murdered.
I know the correct christian answer is to forgive. Forgiveness of this kind of violent crime would most likely be a process....a process only possible with God's grace. There are soooo many steps towards forgivenes....anger, rage, sadness, grief and loss....finally acceptance and closure. It may take a long time to work towards authentic forgiveness.
Forgiveness is the goal......achieving this may take more than just saying the words.
I think that's a very insightful post, beth ann. I think your last sentence especially says a lot. And you know, I think God understands and helps us work through the process in time. With murder, you are also dealing with the loss of the victim at the same time and all the grief that entails. As you said, you can say the words but authentic forgiveness, as you so aptly put it, often takes some time.
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Personal testimony
Unfortunately, I've been there and done that.
My brother was murdered 20 years ago in his own home by a 16 year old that he had taken off the street and showed hospitality to. The 16 year old considered my brother a source of quick cash, and stole whatever items he could easily pawn. When my brother didn't show up for work, my mother received a phone call because my brother was very reliable. Deep down, we all feared what we would find at his apartment, so we had police meet us there. Police discovered the body and wouldn't let us in the apartment. I had nightmares for a week, knowing some crazy person was loose in the world; the nightmares stopped when the kid was apprehended.
Four months later, my mother suffered a stroke. She was 60 at the time. You can't convince me that her stroke was unrelated to my brother's death. My mother died three years later.
Seven years ago, I received a call out of the blue from an assistant DA informing me that this now young man who had killed my brother had killed his cellmate several years earlier, and the asst. DA asked if I would attend the penalty phase of his new trial (assuming he was found guilty). That phone call hit me harder than my brother's death. I grieved harder than I have ever grieved before! However, when my sister asked me "why us?" I replied, "Maybe because we're the only people praying for this man." This man is currently on Death Row, and I routinely pray for him. I've even thought about visiting him in prison the next time I'm in California.
Yes, by God's grace, it's possible to forgive. Believe it or not, it's not as hard as it sounds. I can say this because I have the God of peace, love, and forgiveness living within me; He provides the strength to love and forgive. He provides the comfort when I grieve. He allows righteous anger, yet guides my footsteps onto the path of forgiveness rather than vengeance, onto the path of love rather than hate. Furthermore, Jesus said that if we ourselves are forgiven, we should be willing to forgive others.
The choice is really pretty simple: either forgive and get on with your life, or let bitterness and anger destroy you from within. Many people I've met have been surprised to hear that my brother was murdered. They can't believe I'm emotionally balanced and am able to live a joyful life. I was told, unofficially, that the mother of the cellmate was having a very difficult time; I could completely understand this considering what my own mother went through. The DA's office briefly thought about putting her in touch with me since I appeared to have my act together and was not emotionally ruined by my own experience. They thought I could probably help her through her grief. (Yes, the DA's office had heard me cry, but the people were able to read my inner peace in our many conversations.) Apparently, most people take the path of bitterness and anger and live unproductive, if not destroyed, lives. These people, in turn, affect those close to them and their loved ones often have the same kind of sad life. When this happens, the murderer has taken more than one life; he has managed to destroy everyone who can't find peace and forgiveness. I don't believe anyone will have true peace until they find the power to forgive.
I am truly sorry for those of you who have suffered such terrible losses. I didn't really expect these responses when I started the thread and I almost wish I hadn't done it. It really makes me sick when our legal system fails us like it apparently did in kaykay's situation when the guy plea bargained and got off with a light sentence. My Mother's best friend growing up was murdered by her boyfriend and I remember this event as a young boy. The man who killed her only spent a few short years in prison and he was released. Not long after he was released he moved down to Nevada and killed someone else and was killed by police in the incident. This type of thing is very common and I feel very strongly that our justice system is not doing its job. It's bad enough that the victim's family members have to suffer the loss of a loved one but it's much worse when there is no just punishment and the killer is set free to kill again. Again, I'm very sorry for the pain that people who've posted on this thread have suffered but I thank you for sharing your thoughts and expressing yourselves on such a personal issue.
Blueberry....your disposition after the tragedy of losing your brother is really quite extraordinary. What a wonderful example to us all. I think there may be people who want to let go of bitterness and anger (regarding any horribly negative life experience), but find it a challenge. I think true peace and healing and forgiveness can only be found through God's grace and mercy.
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! So I think that in the instance of the murder of my father it was pure grace and mercy that enabled me not to struggle to forgive.
Personal testimony
