Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And your scientific proof is where...? Oh yes, ancient writings...
Meanwhile, in the scientific real world...
Did these herbivores suddenly evolve physiologically into carnivores? The Great White Shark was all gums before was he? The T-Rex chewed the cud with her pal the hare?
Glad to see you are onboard with evolution at least.
Well, it isn't hard to see why you have decided to flog this herbivore/killer teeth subject to death. I have just clicked on the link that Nikk gave you.
What an eye-opener for me, too. I'll bet a month's wages you didn't even bother to read it. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I'll assume you were interested enough in the never-ending quest for Truth to have a look. Well, do tell me your conclusions.
Elizabeth, can you clear something up? Sin entered the world via Adam and Eve correct? But your quote of Paul seems to conflict with your timeline for animal death. (Or the eating of flesh.) Wouldn't the "all animals as herbivores" line end once Adam and Eve had sinned as opposed to after Noah?
No, the effect of sin was gradual. We are talking over a thousand years to the time of the Flood. (Though nowhere near as imperfect as we are today.) I mean by that, the longer life lines and the ability to marry siblings etc that has such catostrophic effect today.
No, the effect of sin was gradual. We are talking over a thousand years to the time of the Flood. (Though nowhere near as imperfect as we are today.) I mean by that, the longer life lines and the ability to marry siblings etc that has such catostrophic effect today.
Is there some biblical evidence to support your claim that no animal flesh was eaten until after Noah? Clearly animals were killed before Noah's time:
Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Genesis 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering
At the very least, we can argue that animals were killed for their skins and for burnt offerings to god.
I don't see anything about animals not being eaten. Why would these people raise sheep and cattle for a thousand years? Just for companionship, not to eat? That's a stretch.
Unfortunately the supernatural aspects of the bible are not proven because some artifacts or buried cities are found that correlate with the bible. Many ancient books reference real places; take Homer's The Iliad for example. All signs point to Troy as a real city, but Apollo is no longer thought of as a real god. Just apply this parallel system to your bible now.
The bible has been telling fables since the beginning. Before you convince us of its truth, you must get past the talking donkey, talking serpent, woman from man's rib, resurrection, etc.
Otherwise let's pick some other exciting fiction to also believe in. I like Star Wars myself.
The God of the Bible, can use just about anything He wants to pass His Words on. I recall many years ago I got out of my truck at work. And as I did that, I said these words, "Jesus, I love you." And then I continued to walk across the street to enter the plant where I worked. As I was crossing the street, I could not help but noticed a balloon flying wildly in the wind. It would go up very high, and then very low. As I got closer to the plants front gate, the balloon appeared to come closer to the ground. Finally it came down on the other side of the gate that I still had to open. and then suddenly, the balloon started to move quickly in a sidways motion on the other side of the gate. It's movements seemed very odd to me. Then the balloon appeared to center itself in front of the three inch opening of the gate. And for a very short period of time, it just seemed to float in midair. The balloon was about 8 inches in diameter, where as the gate opening was about 3 inches. When I was about five feet from the gate, the balloon somehow moved forward and squeezed through that three inch opening without breaking, and then the balloon almost hit me in the face. Yet at the last minute, I caught the balloon in my hands. When I turned the balloon over, printed on the other side of the balloon were the words, "I LOVE YOU". I then took the balloon back to my truck and was going to save it to show my wife, but as I put the balloon in the truck, a wind came, and the balloon flew out of my truck and continued on it's way. If the God of the Bible can use a balloon to tell me that he loves me, I have no problem believeing he could use a donkey to pass on another message to some one else. Over the years, God has shown me many things in my life, and every experience I have with God, only shows me His wonderful power. It's only because you have not experienced God, do you have such a lack of faith in His abilities. This story is not a fable, and the stories found in the Bible are just as true. The God of the Bible, is a God of wonder.
Well, it isn't hard to see why you have decided to flog this herbivore/killer teeth subject to death. I have just clicked on the link that Nikk gave you.
What an eye-opener for me, too. I'll bet a month's wages you didn't even bother to read it. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I'll assume you were interested enough in the never-ending quest for Truth to have a look. Well, do tell me your conclusions.
The God of the Bible, can use just about anything He wants to pass His Words on. I recall many years ago I got out of my truck at work. And as I did that, I said these words, "Jesus, I love you." And then I continued to walk across the street to enter the plant where I worked. As I was crossing the street, I could not help but noticed a balloon flying wildly in the wind. It would go up very high, and then very low. As I got closer to the plants front gate, the balloon appeared to come closer to the ground. Finally it came down on the other side of the gate that I still had to open. and then suddenly, the balloon started to move quickly in a sidways motion on the other side of the gate. It's movements seemed very odd to me. Then the balloon appeared to center itself in front of the three inch opening of the gate. And for a very short period of time, it just seemed to float in midair. The balloon was about 8 inches in diameter, where as the gate opening was about 3 inches. When I was about five feet from the gate, the balloon somehow moved forward and squeezed through that three inch opening without breaking, and then the balloon almost hit me in the face. Yet at the last minute, I caught the balloon in my hands. When I turned the balloon over, printed on the other side of the balloon were the words, "I LOVE YOU". I then took the balloon back to my truck and was going to save it to show my wife, but as I put the balloon in the truck, a wind came, and the balloon flew out of my truck and continued on it's way. If the God of the Bible can use a balloon to tell me that he loves me, I have no problem believeing he could use a donkey to pass on another message to some one else. Over the years, God has shown me many things in my life, and every experience I have with God, only shows me His wonderful power. It's only because you have not experienced God, do you have such a lack of faith in His abilities. This story is not a fable, and the stories found in the Bible are just as true. The God of the Bible, is a God of wonder.
Although that is a smile-raising narrative about a balloon, worthy of a French film, there is nothing scientific about it to warrant a belief in a god. If testimony was worthy of such life-altering decisions, we might as well pick any handful of mythological choices; I call dibs on Greek or Norse mythology.
Although that is a smile-raising narrative about a balloon, worthy of a French film, there is nothing scientific about it to warrant a belief in a god. If testimony was worthy of such life-altering decisions, we might as well pick any handful of mythological choices; I call dibs on Greek or Norse mythology.
Science Campbell, science!
Science has been with us for a long time. And sometimes science is correct, and sometimes it is proven to be wrong. Yet I would hate to put all my trust in science or a Theory that in time may be proven incorrect. Certainly I would hate to place my eternal destination on science alone. The God of the Bible believes, that if we meet Him halfway, He will show us the other half. I have done this, and the more I consider God, the more He appears to reveal His truth to me. Many years ago I went to a job interview and pretty much failed it. I came home pretty depressed, and was just going up to my room when mid-way up the stairs I heard this voice. It simply said. "Tom, you did everything but pray about getting a Job". Thats all it said. Yet rather than consider the fact that I just herd this voice speak to me out of thin air. I considered what it said. So with that, I continued upstairs and I walked into my mothers bedroom. I then kneeled down by her bed and said. "Lord, I know you know when a bird falls from the sky, and your Book tells us that even the hairs on our head are numbered. So Lord, then you must know that I need a job. So Jesus, I'm asking you to get me that job, and what ever happens now will be because of you Jesus". With that, I said "Amen". And as soon as I said the A, of Amen, the phone next to me began to ring. I picked up the phone while I was still on my knees, and the man on the other end ask if I was Tom Campbell. I said yes I am. He then told me that he had just picked up some paper work that I had left on his desk from two weeks before. And He asked if I could start work for their company monday morning at 8 a.m. After a while, you start to understand that there is a greater power than yourself at work in the world today. And the more you look to this power, the more it involves itself with your life. For some people, belief in science is just an attempt to replace God with human knowledge and understanding. Science has done many wonderful things for the world. Yet science cannot fill a heart with love, nor will it ever replace the real God that loves us. The God of the Bible tells us, that man will always be learning, yet man will never come to the knowledge of the truth. It is only God that will reveal to you who He is, and you will only come to that knowledge, if you seek God first. You will never discover God under a microscope.
Well, it isn't hard to see why you have decided to flog this herbivore/killer teeth subject to death. I have just clicked on the link that Nikk gave you.
What an eye-opener for me, too. I'll bet a month's wages you didn't even bother to read it. But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. I'll assume you were interested enough in the never-ending quest for Truth to have a look. Well, do tell me your conclusions.
I read some of it. Quite the spin put on a real event...I'm talking about the migration of early man not the biblical tale of Noah's family.
Science has been with us for a long time. And sometimes science is correct, and sometimes it is proven to be wrong. Yet I would hate to put all my trust in science or a Theory that in time may be proven incorrect. Certainly I would hate to place my eternal destination on science alone. The God of the Bible believes, that if we meet Him halfway, He will show us the other half. I have done this, and the more I consider God, the more He appears to reveal His truth to me. Many years ago I went to a job interview and pretty much failed it. I came home pretty depressed, and was just going up to my room when mid-way up the stairs I heard this voice. It simply said. "Tom, you did everything but pray about getting a Job". Thats all it said. Yet rather than consider the fact that I just herd this voice speak to me out of thin air. I considered what it said. So with that, I continued upstairs and I walked into my mothers bedroom. I then kneeled down by her bed and said. "Lord, I know you know when a bird falls from the sky, and your Book tells us that even the hairs on our head are numbered. So Lord, then you must know that I need a job. So Jesus, I'm asking you to get me that job, and what ever happens now will be because of you Jesus". With that, I said "Amen". And as soon as I said the A, of Amen, the phone next to me began to ring. I picked up the phone while I was still on my knees, and the man on the other end ask if I was Tom Campbell. I said yes I am. He then told me that he had just picked up some paper work that I had left on his desk from two weeks before. And He asked if I could start work for their company monday morning at 8 a.m. After a while, you start to understand that there is a greater power than yourself at work in the world today. And the more you look to this power, the more it involves itself with your life. For some people, belief in science is just an attempt to replace God with human knowledge and understanding. Science has done many wonderful things for the world. Yet science cannot fill a heart with love, nor will it ever replace the real God that loves us. The God of the Bible tells us, that man will always be learning, yet man will never come to the knowledge of the truth. It is only God that will reveal to you who He is, and you will only come to that knowledge, if you seek God first. You will never discover God under a microscope.
Science is about facts as we understand them. Science evolves. Calling the Earth flat before it could be verified is not really science, is it? It's like you gave up on science because it failed you in the Dark Ages. Campbell, it's 2008, some great changes have taken place. Come join us.
The tales you tell about the biblical god are nice, fuzzy stories. How do you reconcile that with:
Leviticus 20:13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Exodus 21:20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
Exodus 21:7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.
Numbers 31:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people." 7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
This is just for starters...great religion and god you champion. Let me get this straight:
1) kill homosexuals - check
2) beat slaves - check
3) female slaves not as good as male slaves - check
4) kill women and children and keep all the virgins for yourself - check
Science is about facts as we understand them. Science evolves. Calling the Earth flat before it could be verified is not really science, is it? It's like you gave up on science because it failed you in the Dark Ages. Campbell, it's 2008, some great changes have taken place. Come join us.
The tales you tell about the biblical god are nice, fuzzy stories. How do you reconcile that with:
Leviticus 20:13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Exodus 21:20 "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, 21 but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
Exodus 21:7 "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as menservants do. 8 If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed. He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her. 9 If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.
Numbers 31:1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites. After that, you will be gathered to your people." 7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. 14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 15 "Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. 16 "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.
This is just for starters...great religion and god you champion. Let me get this straight:
1) kill homosexuals - check
2) beat slaves - check
3) female slaves not as good as male slaves - check
4) kill women and children and keep all the virgins for yourself - check
What an inspiring belief system!
Atheists lived it too.....
how do you reconcile that?
I actually think all of those things were appropriate and not much different than some of the modern expressions of living, in fact in many cultures that don't even have a bible, live worse than the list you have blasted.
Sometimes you have to accept the level of those you are raising, like children. Baby steps, until new wisdom can be accepted without consequences that would be worse than the one's that were practiced in those days.
godspeed,
freedom
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
