Questions for jehovah's witnesses (salvation, translation, America, prophecies)

[REFORMED]

1- When was Jerusalem destroyed and can you prove it outside of your own literature?
2- Who/Where did the Jehovah's Witnesses get their Bible translation from?
3- What does your Bible say in John 1:1? Is it the same in all other Bibles?
3b- Are there a lot of differences between your Bible and other Bibles, such as the King James Version?
4- Have you ever heard of Bethsarim? If so, how do you explain it?
5- What is the significance of the year 1914 in relation to when Jerusalem was destroyed?
6- Did your religion ever believe Jesus died on a cross or did they ever show it in any of their literature?
7- How long have you been a Jehovah's Witness?

I would like clear answers to all of the above questions.

[REFORMED]

Interesting, why is no one answering these questions???????????????????????

[Michigan_Man]

Originally Posted by REFORMED

Interesting, why is no one answering these questions???????????????????????

they're probably taking their time to think of some Bull$hit response to try and change the subject to something else. I pity those that allow themselves to be deceived by the Governing Body

[firstborn888]

Originally Posted by REFORMED

Interesting, why is no one answering these questions???????????????????????

Didn't you post somewhere that you used to be a JW? If I saw that (and I have no real reason to notice) I'm sure a JW would notice and figure they were being set up.

But I'm not even sure I saw you post that - if not, obviously - ignore this post!

blessings,
- Byron

[REFORMED]

Yes, I was a JW and I still want to encourage the JW's to seek out answers to these questions. It's as if no one that I've ever asked these questions to have ever answered the questions or even attempted to. (??)

[AdrianR]

Originally Posted by REFORMED

1- When was Jerusalem destroyed and can you prove it outside of your own literature?
2- Who/Where did the Jehovah's Witnesses get their Bible translation from?
3- What does your Bible say in John 1:1? Is it the same in all other Bibles?
3b- Are there a lot of differences between your Bible and other Bibles, such as the King James Version?
4- Have you ever heard of Bethsarim? If so, how do you explain it?
5- What is the significance of the year 1914 in relation to when Jerusalem was destroyed?
6- Did your religion ever believe Jesus died on a cross or did they ever show it in any of their literature?
7- How long have you been a Jehovah's Witness?

I would like clear answers to all of the above questions.

Before I answer your "questions" I must say this, I do not answer to answer you, but to give a heads up to what apostates do best. Lie. Things like your questions #3, 4, & 6 are typical for apostate thinking. No doubt you had no idea of the history of JW's and so when some other apostate presented these "shocking facts" you believed their claims that the big bad Watchtower Society was hiding it from you. And so you turn around and do the same. In fact, JW history is plainly laid out in the 725 page book, (published by the WTS and freely available to all JW's) "Jehovah's Witnesses: Proclaimers of God's Kingdom". The truth is, these "hidden" facts are not actually hidden. Yet apostates will try very hard to make it seem that way.

Now for the answers:

#1 This site is pretty nifty for that: Jerusalem 607 BCE - why 587 is wrong according to the Bible (broken link)

#2 While no one knows for sure the exact people, it was requested that the names of the translaters not be given because this was not mans word, but Jehovah's, thus all glory should go to him. And unlike the leaders of Christendom who like their faces and names plastered on everything they do, the translators chose glory to God over themselves. Despite not knowing the committee members’ identities or credentials, Dr. Bruce Metzger states: "On the whole, one gains a tolerably good impression of the scholarly equipment of the translators”.Similarly, though critical, Samuel Haas, in his review of the first volume of the NWT of the Hebrew Scriptures, stated that "this work indicates a great deal of effort and thought as well as considerable scholarship".The Editor of the NWT was Frederick Franz. The Watchtower organization’s Board of Directors tasked him to examine the NWT and determine its accuracy and acceptability as it was submitted for publication.Frederick Franz attended the University of Cincinnati where he was an honor student.His formal training concentrated on Latin and classical Greek. In addition to his native tongue of English, Frederick Franz was fluent in Spanish, Portuguese and German, conversant in French, and a scholar of Hebrew, Greek, Syrian and Latin.

#3 The NWT says at John 1:1, that Jesus, the Word, "was a god." Not God. Is this the same as all other translations? No. But there are others that render John 1:1 correctly:

[LEFT]1808: "and the word was a god." The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]
1864: "and a god was the word." The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading, by Benjamin Wilson.

1928: "and the Word was a divine being." La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel.

1935: "and the Word was divine." The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

1946: "and of a divine kind was the Word." Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme.

1950: "and the Word was a god." New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]
1958: "and the Word was a God." The New Testament, by James L. Tomanek.

1975: "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz.[/LEFT]

1978: "and godlike kind was the Logos." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider.

Also, take a look at this image from the Emphattic Diaglott. Notice, in the original Greek, it says that the word was "a god," not God. Yet, the BIASED translations, as are most, clearly distorts it to say, "the Logos was God." Kinda funny if you ask me. So I guess the NWT is correct on John 1:1.

http://www.wtv-zone.com/intelligent-health/Babylon/images/john1-1.jpg (broken link)

#3B Yes, mistakes and bias in other translations were corrected. NewWorldTranslation (broken link)

#4 Yes, "House of the Princes."
From the Proclaimers book, page 76: "Brother Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia after his release from unjust imprisonment in 1919. Thereafter, he had only one good lung. In the 1920’s, under a doctor’s treatment, he went to San Diego, California, and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible there. From 1929 on, Brother Rutherford spent the winters working at a San Diego residence he had named Beth-Sarim. Beth-Sarim was built with funds that were a direct contribution for that purpose. The deed, which was published in full in "The Golden Age" of March 19, 1930, conveyed this property to J. F. Rutherford and thereafter to the Watch Tower Society. Concerning Beth-Sarim, the book "Salvation," published in 1939, explains: "The Hebrew words ‘Beth Sarim’ mean ‘House of the Princes’; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth."
[LEFT]A few years after Brother Rutherford’s death, the board of directors of the Watch Tower Society decided to sell Beth-Sarim. Why? "The Watchtower" of December 15, 1947, explained: "It had fully served its purpose and was now only serving as a monument quite expensive to keep; our faith in the return of the men of old time whom the King Christ Jesus will make princes in ALL the earth (not merely in California) is based, not upon that house Beth-Sarim, but upon God’s Word of promise." At the time, it was believed that faithful men of old times, such as Abraham, Joseph, and David, would be resurrected before the end of this system of things and would serve as "princes in all the earth," in fulfillment of Psalm 45:16. This view was adjusted in 1950, when further study of the Scriptures indicated that those earthly forefathers of Jesus Christ would be resurrected after Armageddon."

But lets not forget all of the stolen funds that Christendom has used to build her palaces for one reason or another. But thats ok, right? You see, the difference between JW's and Christendom is, that Christendom, although she knows for a fact that she is rife with paganism and falsehood, is content in her ways. Just like ancient pagan apostate Judah, they wont change or discard things they know to be wrong in Gods eyes. At least JW's, as with the above, admit a mistake, leave it, and press forward,

#5 Here is the answer for that: The Times of the Gentiles (http://www.wtv-zone.com/intelligent-health/Jews/1914.html - broken link)

#6 Yes they did. But once they realized the cross was a pagan symbol and that Jesus did not die on the cross, they discarded its image, like all pagan things. This is also frequently mentioned in our literature, and get this: with pictures! Watch the two short video I made entitled, "Why Jehovah's Witnesses Don't Use the Cross in Worship." YouTube - AdrianRuehl's Channel As I said, apostates try to make it seem like the WTS hides these things: "Did they ever show it in any of their literature?"

#7 About 10 years. Ample time to see all of this readily told by the WTS to all JWs.

I will not answer or debate anything else you or anyone shall say. As with your questions, you will no doubt find clever ways to get around these straight forward answers. I leave you wih this from 1 Timothy 6:3-5:
[/LEFT]
"If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain."

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by AdrianR

Before I answer your "questions" I must say this, I do not answer to answer you, but to give a heads up to what apostates do best. Lie. Things like your questions #3, 4, & 6 are typical for apostate thinking. No doubt you had no idea of the history of JW's and so when some other apostate presented these "shocking facts" you believed their claims that the big bad Watchtower Society was hiding it from you. And so you turn around and do the same. In fact, JW history is plainly laid out in the 725 page book, (published by the WTS and freely available to all JW's) "Jehovah's Witnesses: Proclaimers of God's Kingdom". The truth is, these "hidden" facts are not actually hidden. Yet apostates will try very hard to make it seem that way.

Now for the answers:

#1 This site is pretty nifty for that: Jerusalem 607 BCE - why 587 is wrong according to the Bible

#2 While no one knows for sure the exact people, it was requested that the names of the translaters not be given because this was not mans word, but Jehovah's, thus all glory should go to him. And unlike the leaders of Christendom who like their faces and names plastered on everything they do, the translators chose glory to God over themselves. Despite not knowing the committee members’ identities or credentials, Dr. Bruce Metzger states: "On the whole, one gains a tolerably good impression of the scholarly equipment of the translators”.Similarly, though critical, Samuel Haas, in his review of the first volume of the NWT of the Hebrew Scriptures, stated that "this work indicates a great deal of effort and thought as well as considerable scholarship".The Editor of the NWT was Frederick Franz. The Watchtower organization’s Board of Directors tasked him to examine the NWT and determine its accuracy and acceptability as it was submitted for publication.Frederick Franz attended the University of Cincinnati where he was an honor student.His formal training concentrated on Latin and classical Greek. In addition to his native tongue of English, Frederick Franz was fluent in Spanish, Portuguese and German, conversant in French, and a scholar of Hebrew, Greek, Syrian and Latin.

#3 The NWT says at John 1:1, that Jesus, the Word, "was a god." Not God. Is this the same as all other translations? No. But there are others that render John 1:1 correctly:

1808: "and the word was a god." The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text.

1864: "and a god was the word." The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading, by Benjamin Wilson.

1928: "and the Word was a divine being." La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel.

1935: "and the Word was divine." The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

1946: "and of a divine kind was the Word." Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme.

1950: "and the Word was a god." New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures.

1958: "and the Word was a God." The New Testament, by James L. Tomanek.

1975: "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz.

1978: "and godlike kind was the Logos." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider.

Also, take a look at this image from the Emphattic Diaglott. Notice, in the original Greek, it says that the word was "a god," not God. Yet, the BIASED translations, as are most, clearly distorts it to say, "the Logos was God." Kinda funny if you ask me. So I guess the NWT is correct on John 1:1.

http://www.wtv-zone.com/intelligent-health/Babylon/images/john1-1.jpg (broken link)

#3B Yes, mistakes and bias in other translations were corrected. NewWorldTranslation (broken link)

#4 Yes, "House of the Princes."
From the Proclaimers book, page 76: "Brother Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia after his release from unjust imprisonment in 1919. Thereafter, he had only one good lung. In the 1920’s, under a doctor’s treatment, he went to San Diego, California, and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible there. From 1929 on, Brother Rutherford spent the winters working at a San Diego residence he had named Beth-Sarim. Beth-Sarim was built with funds that were a direct contribution for that purpose. The deed, which was published in full in "The Golden Age" of March 19, 1930, conveyed this property to J. F. Rutherford and thereafter to the Watch Tower Society. Concerning Beth-Sarim, the book "Salvation," published in 1939, explains: "The Hebrew words ‘Beth Sarim’ mean ‘House of the Princes’; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth."

A few years after Brother Rutherford’s death, the board of directors of the Watch Tower Society decided to sell Beth-Sarim. Why? "The Watchtower" of December 15, 1947, explained: "It had fully served its purpose and was now only serving as a monument quite expensive to keep; our faith in the return of the men of old time whom the King Christ Jesus will make princes in ALL the earth (not merely in California) is based, not upon that house Beth-Sarim, but upon God’s Word of promise." At the time, it was believed that faithful men of old times, such as Abraham, Joseph, and David, would be resurrected before the end of this system of things and would serve as "princes in all the earth," in fulfillment of Psalm 45:16. This view was adjusted in 1950, when further study of the Scriptures indicated that those earthly forefathers of Jesus Christ would be resurrected after Armageddon."

But lets not forget all of the stolen funds that Christendom has used to build her palaces for one reason or another. But thats ok, right? You see, the difference between JW's and Christendom is, that Christendom, although she knows for a fact that she is rife with paganism and falsehood, is content in her ways. Just like ancient pagan apostate Judah, they wont change or discard things they know to be wrong in Gods eyes. At least JW's, as with the above, admit a mistake, leave it, and press forward,

#5 Here is the answer for that: The Times of the Gentiles (http://www.wtv-zone.com/intelligent-health/Jews/1914.html - broken link)

#6 Yes they did. But once they realized the cross was a pagan symbol and that Jesus did not die on the cross, they discarded its image, like all pagan things. This is also frequently mentioned in our literature, and get this: with pictures! Watch the two short video I made entitled, "Why Jehovah's Witnesses Don't Use the Cross in Worship." YouTube - AdrianRuehl's Channel As I said, apostates try to make it seem like the WTS hides these things: "Did they ever show it in any of their literature?"

#7 About 10 years. Ample time to see all of this readily told by the WTS to all JWs.

I will not answer or debate anything else you or anyone shall say. As with your questions, you will no doubt find clever ways to get around these straight forward answers. I leave you wih this from 1 Timothy 6:3-5:

"If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain."

I have never been able to get one of the Watch Tower folks to answer this one question for me. Perhaps you could. Who made the earth?

[AdrianR]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

I have never been able to get one of the Watch Tower folks to answer this one question for me.

I dont want to sound rude, but, yeah right.

Gen. 1:1

Jehovah God the Almighty made the earth

[REFORMED]

Adrian, this is a lot to review and I have more of an inborn desire now to research this than ever. I would like the opportunity to track back these bibles that you speak of as having the truth of John 1:1. I will also have to take the time to review the website you have sent me to. I appreciate your comments and no, I do not think you have to answer to me, only to the Lord, as we all do. AND ONE OTHER THING: I must point out an error I have made on this and other forums that I feel obligated to clean up. I said in other posts that the JW's got their translation FROM Johannes Greber, but in actuality, all I can attest to is that they QUOTED FROM HIM and THAT THEY SAY HIS TRANSLATION was correct whether he consulted demons or not to get the meanings of 'difficult passages'.

As far as your Bible, you have no idea who all the men were that translated it, yet the JW's say it is full truth in it's interpretation, even the "difficult passages" that Greber consulted demons about, and you agree with, which are different than all the other bibles. You say that it is the correct interpretation because you are told to think that. You have not determined whether this is sound reasoning, but again, rather, you have just accepted it because that is what the WTS has engrained in your mind to think. That is one of the key characteristics of religious cults.... ones that DISCOURAGE independant thinking.

Also, you have called me an apostate, but an apostate, as spoken of in the Bible, rejects Christ as Lord God. An apostate turns their back on God after receiving the light of the truth. An apostate wants nothing to do with God..... and the JW's have classified themselves with God, in that they say that if you turn your back on the WATCHTOWER, then you are an apostate. Did you ever think of that? I have in no way turned my back on God. Rather I have turned my back on a society that has delivered false prophesies, such as several predictions of Armageddon. I did it because the Bible says that false prophets will not inherit God's Kingdom and I refused to be associated with false prophets and people NOT to look into past literature, saying the "bright light gets brighter". You guys seem to forget that scripture while you so quickly sling scriptures such as the last one you posted, but I must admit that 1 Timothy 6:3-5 is one scripture you should take very seriously. I do not know why you would say such a thing to me when the questions that we are asking JW's to answer are taken such great offense to. Why is it that you take such great offense?

And why is it that you took the easy way out and copied and pasted research that SOMEONE ELSE did and were so quick to believe it? How do you know they did not make it up? Do you not think the Lord HIMSELF would want you to research all the history of what you are professing to be truth on your own rather than believing what a group of people say who CLAIM their information comes from God?? And might I add that the JW's claim to get their information from the slave, yet they do not even know who these "mysterious men" are? What right do any men have to say that the things they are predicting are coming from God, only for the things to never happen, and henceforth you have an organization STILL saying they get secret knowledge from God, but STILL they have NO IDEA who these men are?? Are you that deoendant on someone ELSE with no name and no face?? Seriously, your translators have nbo name and no face and you are supposed ot believe their word is right even though everyone elses Bible disagrees, and your "FAITHFUL SLAVE" has no name and no face and you are even aware of the roots in freemasonry, yet you still continue to believe what they are saying???????? I am still in amazement. But I WILL research the information that you provided.... because that's what I DO.... I research all things, not just what my religion tells me. To not go outside of one's own religion to test the utterances, would be going against what the Lord has told us to do, so i'll let you know what I come up with when I track back all the Bibles you brought up. Im excited to see and learn more about the writers/translators of each Bible and where they got their translation from, or rather which Bible they translated or used to help them.

And about the 607 date, do you not think it is odd that the JW's are the ONLY ones that believe it? There was NOWHERE in the Bible that said 607 BC, and yet the JW's were the ONLY ONES that claimed they had the right interpretation, and to boot, they even set dates based on it, and the greatest of all was 1975. And 1975 was the reason Bethsarim was built, because there were millions believing what the Watchtower said 4 times earlier.... that Armageddon was coming. How do you feel about the fact that Armageddon was predicted in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1925 and 1975, AFTER knowing that no man knows the day or hour, as stated in the Bible? What about all the times the Society changed their views on blood transfusions, and people lost their lives as a result of it? What about when they disfellowshipped people for things and then later changed their minds to have a "new light"? And how can you feel comfortable with knowing that yes, in fact, you are in a religion who has been guilty of false prophecies, lies, and denying that Jesus is God based on their OWN interpretation of the Bible that was written by someone who has no name, no face, and possibly no credentials? You dont even know if they were really truly JW's or whether you were TOLD that they were??? You and I both know that this is silly to fathom that you are just forced to sit there and take their word for it and that you are not allowed to know where they got their interpretation from...... Come on, you're not allowed to know WHO they are??? Wait, maybe it WAS Greber!!!! Think about it, HIS BIBLE IS THE SAME AS YOURS! Since they quoted from him, why dont you ask them to prove that the interpretation was not just a copy of HIS??? Hmmmmmm.......

In fact the key scriptures found in all translations (other than the ones you mentioned that NO ONE has heard of before, and cannot even be found on the shelves of Barnes and Nobles) say that Jesus IS God, but you just keep referring back to people who do not exist by name or anything. And the fact that you attempt to credit these no-name translators just because another JW agreed that it was the right translation shows that you are just believing what you are told to believe. You have not done any research on these topics yourself. You have not stepped foot into a library and looked at history books or done any "independant thinking", because the JW's tell you not to. Stop living in fear and TEST EVERY UTTERANCE. Something is seriously wrong with the fact that you got none of this information on your own and all you keep doing to try to defend the JW's is to slay "Christendom". You even say that JW's admit a mistake, leave it and press it forward..... if that was true, WHY DO THEY NOT WANT YOU TO THINK INDEPENDANTLY ON YOUR OWN AND RESEARCH IT MORE IN DETAIL AND WHY DO THEY TRY SO HARD TO GET PAST IT QUICKLY??? Why are you not versed very well on the history, but rather you must quote other people?

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

New Living Translation John 1:1 "In the beginning the Word already existed. He was with God, and He WAS God".