Questions for jehovah's witnesses (disciples, agnostic, suicide, Holy Spirit)

[REFORMED]

See my above posted quote from the Watchtower, then see this one....


1981 "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude. They do not want to serve 'shoulder to shoulder' with the worldwide brotherhood. Rather, they present a 'stubborn shoulder' to Jehovah's words. (Zech. 7:11, 12) Reviling the pattern of the 'pure language' that Jehovah has so graciously taught his people over the past century, these haughty ones try to draw the 'sheep' away from the one international 'flock' that Jesus has gathered in the earth. (John 10:7-10, 16) They try to sow doubts and to separate unsuspecting ones from the bounteous 'table' of spiritual food spread at the Kingdom Halls of Jehovah's Witnesses, where truly there is 'nothing lacking.' (Ps. 23:1-6) They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such 'Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago." {WT Aug 15 1981 28-9} {WR 1913 5156}]

[AdrianR]

Originally Posted by REFORMED

Is that all you can come up with on the JW quotes? Do you want me to throw you some more? I've got books and books of quotes made by the JW's that they are guilty of. You're ONE EXAMPLE of ONE quote, which left out A FEW WORDS is weak.

ok, here is some more Jehovah's Witnesses: Setting the Record Straight
and theres a few more here under "adding words" and "false prophecies?" http://www.jehovah.to/xlation/


NO WHERE, ABSOLUTELY NO WHERE IN ANY HISTORY BOOK ANYWHERE ON THIS PLANET WILL YOU EVER FIND ANYTHING THAT SAYS JERUSALEM WAS DESTROYED IN 607 BC!...Jerusalem was NOT destroyed in 607. Get the net my dear, IT WAS 5-8-6/ 5-8-7 B-C! The rediculous site that you once sent me to that supposedly supported 607 was so obsurdly WEAK (in your opinion) in their SUPPORT that it was rediculous.

im not going to go into some big long explenation about 607, but here is one example. when it comes to the prophecy of the 70 weeks of years in Daniel, it gave a specific time period of when the Messiah would arrive. They are not Putting Faith in Him (http://www.wtv-zone.com/intelligent-health/Jews/rejectmessiah.html - broken link) now, if Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/7, then the arrivial of the Messiah would have been 20 years off!

In 29 C.E., John the Baptizer was preparing the way for Jesus. Luke 3:15 says of this: “The people were waiting expectantly and were all wondering in their hearts if John might possibly be the Christ...” (NIV) Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius, Jewish historian Flavius Josephus and Jewish philosopher Philo Judaeus all attested to this fact of expectation. Abba Hillel Silver, in his book, A History of Messianic Speculation in Israel, says that “the Messiah was expected around the second quarter [25-50 C.E.] of the first century C.E.” This he said, was because of “the popular chronology of that day.” Chronology derived in part from the prophecy of Daniel.

And the French Manuel Biblique states: "People knew that the seventy weeks of years fixed by Daniel were drawing to a close; nobody was surprised to hear John the Baptist announce that the kingdom of God had drawn near."

Instead of arriving in 29 C.E., Jesus would have arrived in 49 C.E. This is something even Christendom and historians know did not happen. And the expectation of the Jews in 29 C.E. would have been totally misplaced.

This is all relevant because the word to restore Jerusalem would not have occured in 455 BCE if Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 BCE. If Jerusalem was destroyed in 536/7, then the word to rebuild would have occured in 517/6, not 455, thus throwing the whole prophecy of Daniel off 20 years to having the messiah arrive in 49 CE, instead of 29 CE.

so Christian believer, what it comes down to is this: what do you put more faith in? the inspired prophecies of the Bible, which always come true? or the proved failings of ancient chronology settings?

my answers are in red above

[Ringwielder]

Why do you accept 539 bc but not 587 bc when they are both based on the same evidence?

[antredd]

Originally Posted by AdrianR

Before I answer your "questions" I must say this, I do not answer to answer you, but to give a heads up to what apostates do best. Lie. Things like your questions #3, 4, & 6 are typical for apostate thinking. No doubt you had no idea of the history of JW's and so when some other apostate presented these "shocking facts" you believed their claims that the big bad Watchtower Society was hiding it from you. And so you turn around and do the same. In fact, JW history is plainly laid out in the 725 page book, (published by the WTS and freely available to all JW's) "Jehovah's Witnesses: Proclaimers of God's Kingdom". The truth is, these "hidden" facts are not actually hidden. Yet apostates will try very hard to make it seem that way.

Now for the answers:

#1 This site is pretty nifty for that: Jerusalem 607 BCE - why 587 is wrong according to the Bible

#2 While no one knows for sure the exact people, it was requested that the names of the translaters not be given because this was not mans word, but Jehovah's, thus all glory should go to him. And unlike the leaders of Christendom who like their faces and names plastered on everything they do, the translators chose glory to God over themselves. Despite not knowing the committee members’ identities or credentials, Dr. Bruce Metzger states: "On the whole, one gains a tolerably good impression of the scholarly equipment of the translators”.Similarly, though critical, Samuel Haas, in his review of the first volume of the NWT of the Hebrew Scriptures, stated that "this work indicates a great deal of effort and thought as well as considerable scholarship".The Editor of the NWT was Frederick Franz. The Watchtower organization’s Board of Directors tasked him to examine the NWT and determine its accuracy and acceptability as it was submitted for publication.Frederick Franz attended the University of Cincinnati where he was an honor student.His formal training concentrated on Latin and classical Greek. In addition to his native tongue of English, Frederick Franz was fluent in Spanish, Portuguese and German, conversant in French, and a scholar of Hebrew, Greek, Syrian and Latin.

#3 The NWT says at John 1:1, that Jesus, the Word, "was a god." Not God. Is this the same as all other translations? No. But there are others that render John 1:1 correctly:

[LEFT]1808: "and the word was a god." The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]
1864: "and a god was the word." The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading, by Benjamin Wilson.

1928: "and the Word was a divine being." La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel.

1935: "and the Word was divine." The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

1946: "and of a divine kind was the Word." Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme.

1950: "and the Word was a god." New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures.[/LEFT]
[LEFT]
1958: "and the Word was a God." The New Testament, by James L. Tomanek.

1975: "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz.[/LEFT]

1978: "and godlike kind was the Logos." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider.

Also, take a look at this image from the Emphattic Diaglott. Notice, in the original Greek, it says that the word was "a god," not God. Yet, the BIASED translations, as are most, clearly distorts it to say, "the Logos was God." Kinda funny if you ask me. So I guess the NWT is correct on John 1:1.



#3B Yes, mistakes and bias in other translations were corrected. NewWorldTranslation (broken link)

#4 Yes, "House of the Princes."
From the Proclaimers book, page 76: "Brother Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia after his release from unjust imprisonment in 1919. Thereafter, he had only one good lung. In the 1920’s, under a doctor’s treatment, he went to San Diego, California, and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible there. From 1929 on, Brother Rutherford spent the winters working at a San Diego residence he had named Beth-Sarim. Beth-Sarim was built with funds that were a direct contribution for that purpose. The deed, which was published in full in "The Golden Age" of March 19, 1930, conveyed this property to J. F. Rutherford and thereafter to the Watch Tower Society. Concerning Beth-Sarim, the book "Salvation," published in 1939, explains: "The Hebrew words ‘Beth Sarim’ mean ‘House of the Princes’; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth."
[LEFT]A few years after Brother Rutherford’s death, the board of directors of the Watch Tower Society decided to sell Beth-Sarim. Why? "The Watchtower" of December 15, 1947, explained: "It had fully served its purpose and was now only serving as a monument quite expensive to keep; our faith in the return of the men of old time whom the King Christ Jesus will make princes in ALL the earth (not merely in California) is based, not upon that house Beth-Sarim, but upon God’s Word of promise." At the time, it was believed that faithful men of old times, such as Abraham, Joseph, and David, would be resurrected before the end of this system of things and would serve as "princes in all the earth," in fulfillment of Psalm 45:16. This view was adjusted in 1950, when further study of the Scriptures indicated that those earthly forefathers of Jesus Christ would be resurrected after Armageddon."

But lets not forget all of the stolen funds that Christendom has used to build her palaces for one reason or another. But thats ok, right? You see, the difference between JW's and Christendom is, that Christendom, although she knows for a fact that she is rife with paganism and falsehood, is content in her ways. Just like ancient pagan apostate Judah, they wont change or discard things they know to be wrong in Gods eyes. At least JW's, as with the above, admit a mistake, leave it, and press forward,

#5 Here is the answer for that: The Times of the Gentiles (http://www.wtv-zone.com/intelligent-health/Jews/1914.html - broken link)

#6 Yes they did. But once they realized the cross was a pagan symbol and that Jesus did not die on the cross, they discarded its image, like all pagan things. This is also frequently mentioned in our literature, and get this: with pictures! Watch the two short video I made entitled, "Why Jehovah's Witnesses Don't Use the Cross in Worship." YouTube - AdrianRuehl's Channel As I said, apostates try to make it seem like the WTS hides these things: "Did they ever show it in any of their literature?"

#7 About 10 years. Ample time to see all of this readily told by the WTS to all JWs.

I will not answer or debate anything else you or anyone shall say. As with your questions, you will no doubt find clever ways to get around these straight forward answers. I leave you wih this from 1 Timothy 6:3-5:
[/LEFT]
"If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain."

I find it quite interesting when a question is asked of a JW, that JW just cuts and pastes Watchtower Literature to answer the question. It's as if the JW can't answer the question just from using the bible. I have one question for any JW who apparently seems to think that the Watchtower is God's only true channel of communication. Read 2 Corinthians 13:5 Keep testing whether you are in the faith, keep proving that you yourselves are. Or do you not recognize that Jesus Christ is in union with you? Unless you are disapproved.

Has any JW tested the Watchtower literature against any other christian literature? And I don't mean just glancing over it to prove why the JWs are right, but carefully examining christian literature to TEST whether it is right or wrong at interpreting the Scriptures differently than the WT or the same as the WT?

I know that the answer is probably no because I think the average JW knows the real reason. The Watchtower doesn't want you to think as individuals. You might find the truth and want to leave the organization. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, no man can come to the Father except through Jesus Christ John 14:6.

Do JWs read that verse and understand that it means that NO ORGANIZATION WILL EVER GET YOU INTO PARADISE ON EARTH, AND NO ORGANIZATION CAN SAVE YOUR SOUL?

[Campbell34]

Originally Posted by AdrianR

Before I answer your "questions" I must say this, I do not answer to answer you, but to give a heads up to what apostates do best. Lie. Things like your questions #3, 4, & 6 are typical for apostate thinking. No doubt you had no idea of the history of JW's and so when some other apostate presented these "shocking facts" you believed their claims that the big bad Watchtower Society was hiding it from you. And so you turn around and do the same. In fact, JW history is plainly laid out in the 725 page book, (published by the WTS and freely available to all JW's) "Jehovah's Witnesses: Proclaimers of God's Kingdom". The truth is, these "hidden" facts are not actually hidden. Yet apostates will try very hard to make it seem that way.

Now for the answers:

#1 This site is pretty nifty for that: Jerusalem 607 BCE - why 587 is wrong according to the Bible

#2 While no one knows for sure the exact people, it was requested that the names of the translaters not be given because this was not mans word, but Jehovah's, thus all glory should go to him. And unlike the leaders of Christendom who like their faces and names plastered on everything they do, the translators chose glory to God over themselves. Despite not knowing the committee members’ identities or credentials, Dr. Bruce Metzger states: "On the whole, one gains a tolerably good impression of the scholarly equipment of the translators”.Similarly, though critical, Samuel Haas, in his review of the first volume of the NWT of the Hebrew Scriptures, stated that "this work indicates a great deal of effort and thought as well as considerable scholarship".The Editor of the NWT was Frederick Franz. The Watchtower organization’s Board of Directors tasked him to examine the NWT and determine its accuracy and acceptability as it was submitted for publication.Frederick Franz attended the University of Cincinnati where he was an honor student.His formal training concentrated on Latin and classical Greek. In addition to his native tongue of English, Frederick Franz was fluent in Spanish, Portuguese and German, conversant in French, and a scholar of Hebrew, Greek, Syrian and Latin.

#3 The NWT says at John 1:1, that Jesus, the Word, "was a god." Not God. Is this the same as all other translations? No. But there are others that render John 1:1 correctly:

1808: "and the word was a god." The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text.

1864: "and a god was the word." The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading, by Benjamin Wilson.

1928: "and the Word was a divine being." La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel.

1935: "and the Word was divine." The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.

1946: "and of a divine kind was the Word." Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme.

1950: "and the Word was a god." New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures.

1958: "and the Word was a God." The New Testament, by James L. Tomanek.

1975: "and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz.

1978: "and godlike kind was the Logos." Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider.

Also, take a look at this image from the Emphattic Diaglott. Notice, in the original Greek, it says that the word was "a god," not God. Yet, the BIASED translations, as are most, clearly distorts it to say, "the Logos was God." Kinda funny if you ask me. So I guess the NWT is correct on John 1:1.



#3B Yes, mistakes and bias in other translations were corrected. NewWorldTranslation (broken link)

#4 Yes, "House of the Princes."
From the Proclaimers book, page 76: "Brother Rutherford had a severe case of pneumonia after his release from unjust imprisonment in 1919. Thereafter, he had only one good lung. In the 1920’s, under a doctor’s treatment, he went to San Diego, California, and the doctor urged him to spend as much time as possible there. From 1929 on, Brother Rutherford spent the winters working at a San Diego residence he had named Beth-Sarim. Beth-Sarim was built with funds that were a direct contribution for that purpose. The deed, which was published in full in "The Golden Age" of March 19, 1930, conveyed this property to J. F. Rutherford and thereafter to the Watch Tower Society. Concerning Beth-Sarim, the book "Salvation," published in 1939, explains: "The Hebrew words ‘Beth Sarim’ mean ‘House of the Princes’; and the purpose of acquiring that property and building the house was that there might be some tangible proof that there are those on earth today who fully believe God and Christ Jesus and in His kingdom, and who believe that the faithful men of old will soon be resurrected by the Lord, be back on earth, and take charge of the visible affairs of earth."

A few years after Brother Rutherford’s death, the board of directors of the Watch Tower Society decided to sell Beth-Sarim. Why? "The Watchtower" of December 15, 1947, explained: "It had fully served its purpose and was now only serving as a monument quite expensive to keep; our faith in the return of the men of old time whom the King Christ Jesus will make princes in ALL the earth (not merely in California) is based, not upon that house Beth-Sarim, but upon God’s Word of promise." At the time, it was believed that faithful men of old times, such as Abraham, Joseph, and David, would be resurrected before the end of this system of things and would serve as "princes in all the earth," in fulfillment of Psalm 45:16. This view was adjusted in 1950, when further study of the Scriptures indicated that those earthly forefathers of Jesus Christ would be resurrected after Armageddon."

But lets not forget all of the stolen funds that Christendom has used to build her palaces for one reason or another. But thats ok, right? You see, the difference between JW's and Christendom is, that Christendom, although she knows for a fact that she is rife with paganism and falsehood, is content in her ways. Just like ancient pagan apostate Judah, they wont change or discard things they know to be wrong in Gods eyes. At least JW's, as with the above, admit a mistake, leave it, and press forward,

#5 Here is the answer for that: The Times of the Gentiles (http://www.wtv-zone.com/intelligent-health/Jews/1914.html - broken link)

#6 Yes they did. But once they realized the cross was a pagan symbol and that Jesus did not die on the cross, they discarded its image, like all pagan things. This is also frequently mentioned in our literature, and get this: with pictures! Watch the two short video I made entitled, "Why Jehovah's Witnesses Don't Use the Cross in Worship." YouTube - AdrianRuehl's Channel As I said, apostates try to make it seem like the WTS hides these things: "Did they ever show it in any of their literature?"

#7 About 10 years. Ample time to see all of this readily told by the WTS to all JWs.

I will not answer or debate anything else you or anyone shall say. As with your questions, you will no doubt find clever ways to get around these straight forward answers. I leave you wih this from 1 Timothy 6:3-5:

"If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain."

The NWT is a mistranslation, and Greek scholars around the world have stated that the verses have been dishonestly changed to get the Bible to agree with the Watch Towers doctrine. Entire verses have been removed or changed in order to get the Bible to agree with their doctrine. It is not clever ways that is the enemy of the Watch Tower Society, it is the truth that the Society must resist. And that is why I have never been able to get a Society member to answer this one question.

Who created all things? Was it Jesus, or was it Jehovah?

[mrpatrick514]

Reformed
Thank you so much for this post!!! I pray that it will open the eyes of all JW's and plant seeds for the HOLY SPIRIT to work with. Not the radio wave Holy Spirit but the True third part to the Godhead 3 in 1. Im just starting to get into this type of minstry and i would love it if you could point me in the right direction on the truth about JW's. I just ordered "reasoning from the scriptures with JW's" and another but for mormons. Please email me with info at [email]MrPatrick514@yahoo.com[/email]

Thank you and GOD bless

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Originally Posted by REFORMED

1- When was Jerusalem destroyed and can you prove it outside of your own literature?
2- Who/Where did the Jehovah's Witnesses get their Bible translation from?
3- What does your Bible say in John 1:1? Is it the same in all other Bibles?
3b- Are there a lot of differences between your Bible and other Bibles, such as the King James Version?
4- Have you ever heard of Bethsarim? If so, how do you explain it?
5- What is the significance of the year 1914 in relation to when Jerusalem was destroyed?
6- Did your religion ever believe Jesus died on a cross or did they ever show it in any of their literature?
7- How long have you been a Jehovah's Witness?

I would like clear answers to all of the above questions.

Well, I'm not a JW, but I have done alot of research on this group and from what I have found they got their bible translation from Johannes Greber, who allowed his wife, who was a meduim to help him with the bible.

Also the Watchtower used Greber translation. Greber also used a seance with a small boy who was a meduim during a meeting. Greber used and went to many meduims, and other types of seances to seek out what he calls truth. The watchtower also predicted many prophecies and not never came true.

I doubt that anyone who is a JW, will answer any of your questions. When confronted about what they believe when they come to your door, they just pack up and leave. So, good luck.

[beeblebrox2009]

Hi from New Zealand.

I am trying hard to witness to a couple of JW's at the moment, but unfortunately as with most cults, the JW's really do brainwash their members.

Their translation came from the corrupted Catholic "bible".

There are many DOCUMENTED false prophesies from the watchtower organisation.

The founder of the JW's, Charles Russel was a 33degree freemason and is buried in the Pittsburgh masonic centre. I have photographic proof of this.

The founders of both "faiths," the Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses, were of the Illuminati bloodline.* Charles Taze Russell, who founded the*Watchtower Society*(Jehovah Witnesses), was of the Illuminati Russell bloodline, which also founded the infamous*Skull and Bones Society*at Yale University.* Charles Taze Russell was a Satanist, a pedophile according to his wife, and a friend of the Rothschilds.* Indeed it was the Rothschilds who funded the Jehovah's Witness operation into being, along with other Illuminati bankers, through "contributions" by organizations like the Rothschild-controlled B'nai B'rith.* This was proved in a court of law in 1922.* One of the key people involved in this was Frank Goldman who later became President of B'nai B'rith.* Why would an organization set up (in theory) to help Jewish people and promote the Jewish faith, be funding into existence the Jehovah's Witnesses???** I think the name Rothschild answers the question.**Russell*was also a high degree Freemason and Knights Templar.


I believe next to Catholicism, the next biggest cult/threat to Christianity is the watchtower org. followed closely by mormonism. I do not include Islam in this, as we all know that Allah is NOT the God of the bible.

JW's, I invite you to my blog where you will hopefully all see some truth.

In christs' name,

Dean

christian-truths2.blogspot.com/

[Joeclash]

I really couldnt care less about who's correct in this debate.. I consider myself very spiritual, but reject most religion customs for the simple reason that they ALL contridict themselves to a certain degree.That goes for you, REFORMED and Adrian. By definition, ALL religions are a cult, and Christians and Catholics have had to defend their teachings for centuries as well. REFORMED, what I would like to to consider is a verse that you should know, yet have clearly ignored when you decided to stated this spitefull thread..
Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matthew 7:1) and “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven”

JW's may indeed have their teachings all mixed up, but from what ive known of them they're very peacefull, kind hearted people who live by an extremely strict moral code. I dont know if i could fault them for that, its more than i can say for most "Christians".

[sanspeur]

Originally Posted by Joeclash

I really couldnt care less about who's correct in this debate.. I consider myself very spiritual, but reject most religion customs for the simple reason that they ALL contridict themselves to a certain degree.That goes for you, REFORMED and Adrian. By definition, ALL religions are a cult, and Christians and Catholics have had to defend their teachings for centuries as well. REFORMED, what I would like to to consider is a verse that you should know, yet have clearly ignored when you decided to stated this spitefull thread..
Judge not, that ye be not judged” (Matthew 7:1) and “Judge not, and ye shall not be judged, condemn not and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven”

JW's may indeed have their teachings all mixed up, but from what ive known of them they're very peacefull, kind hearted people who live by an extremely strict moral code. I dont know if i could fault them for that, its more than i can say for most "Christians".

I agree 100%...Some cults are older and larger than others, but are still cults....