Questions for jehovah's witnesses (Mormon, Muslims, spirits, gospels)

[BWW1962]

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

My question is, how do JW's reconcile the false prophecies,...

I find it an interesting nuance of the rhetoric of JW detractors to suggest that anything published or said by the WBTS is prophetic. This characterization is often predicated on their desire to assert the Biblical condemnation of De 18:20 is thus applicable to the WBTS.

One of the additional characteristics of this ignorant and prejudicial exercise that often appears is not only the inaccurate grandiosity of prophecy being applied to the WBTS literature, but they also attempt to pretentiously establish their own credibility by stating " I was a JW for X number of years, and was even an Elder." This is an absolutely meaningless credential, even if it is true. The requirements to become an Elder are primarily moral integrity. To suggest this gives them some special insight into the organization or in-depth knowledge of the theology is disingenuous; they are low level administrators of the congregation. I offer as evidence the mutterings that the WBTS has false prophecies by those who claim to have intimate knowledge of the theology. If they were knowledgeable, they would know the basic WBTS teaching that there are no prophecies since the 1st century congregation. It is either an indication of their lack of knowledge or an exposure of their prejudice to continue that fallacy

Despite the repeated explanations in the congregations and in the literature that the gift of prophesying was "done away with" (1 Cor 13:8) upon the death of the apostles of the first century congregations, ignorant people continue to falsely assert the WBTS offers prophecy. Their deleterious ilk have no purpose for education but only to defame the WBTS. This is readily apparent in prejudicial and rhetorical style of their "questions" about JW matters.

Do not be misled by bigots, research the issues with honest hearted and reasonable people who do not have an axe to grind.

[Ilene Wright]

Wow this is a really old thread.....2008. "Reformed" isn't even a member anymore. She was raised JW and had a really hard time reconciling her life with things that were brainwashed into her head as a JW. Jehovah Witnesses are nothing more than a cult, plain and simple.

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by BWW1962

I find it an interesting nuance of the rhetoric of JW detractors to suggest that anything published or said by the WBTS is prophetic. This characterization is often predicated on their desire to assert the Biblical condemnation of De 18:20 is thus applicable to the WBTS.

One of the additional characteristics of this ignorant and prejudicial exercise that often appears is not only the inaccurate grandiosity of prophecy being applied to the WBTS literature, but they also attempt to pretentiously establish their own credibility by stating " I was a JW for X number of years, and was even an Elder." This is an absolutely meaningless credential, even if it is true. The requirements to become an Elder are primarily moral integrity. To suggest this gives them some special insight into the organization or in-depth knowledge of the theology is disingenuous; they are low level administrators of the congregation. I offer as evidence the mutterings that the WBTS has false prophecies by those who claim to have intimate knowledge of the theology. If they were knowledgeable, they would know the basic WBTS teaching that there are no prophecies since the 1st century congregation. It is either an indication of their lack of knowledge or an exposure of their prejudice to continue that fallacy

Despite the repeated explanations in the congregations and in the literature that the gift of prophesying was "done away with" (1 Cor 13:8) upon the death of the apostles of the first century congregations, ignorant people continue to falsely assert the WBTS offers prophecy. Their deleterious ilk have no purpose for education but only to defame the WBTS. This is readily apparent in prejudicial and rhetorical style of their "questions" about JW matters.

Do not be misled by bigots, research the issues with honest hearted and reasonable people who do not have an axe to grind.

I have researched it. Even a simple Google search yields plenty of results that quote the exact Watchtower articles, complete with page numbers and everything, of when the WTBS predicted Armageddon. They finally now just say the end is coming "soon" but we don't know exactly when. Even in that case, it's been coming "soon" for a long time now.

If the JW's own theology is that the ability to prophesies died out in the 1st century, what were they doing trying to scare people into preaching full-time, for Jehovah would seek justice soon? If anything that just strikes me as even more contradictory.

Jehovah’s Witnesses – False Prophecies | Jehovah Witnesses | Finis Dake and Dangerous Cults | Finis Dake and Dangerous Cults: The Truth About Dangerous Cults and The Dake Bible | Finis Dake, Dake Study Bible, Dake Annotated Reference Bibl (http://dangerouscults.com/jehovah-witnesses-false-prophecies.html - broken link)

Freeminds.org - Discover The Truth About Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society - Watchtower Dates | Freeminds.org - Discover The Truth About Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society

You might consider the websites biased, but they quote the articles where the prediction are made--which is directly at the source.

[BWW1962]

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

I have researched it. Even a simple Google search yields plenty of results...

I do not doubt you have "researched". The intent and integrity of that research is evidenced by the resources you recommend to support your hypothesis.

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

...what were they doing trying to scare people into preaching full-time, for Jehovah would seek justice soon? If anything that just strikes me as even more contradictory.

It is no wonder you imagine it to be contradictory. Your prejudice has tainted your judgment. You believe the WBTS presents prophecy and its intent is to scare people into following Jesus' teachings (Mat 28:19)? That is an absurd description. If you tell someone that they should stop smoking because they will suffer health problems such as lung cancer, is that a prophetic message to generate fearful submission?

Originally Posted by nimchimpsky

You might consider the websites biased, but they quote the articles where the prediction are made--which is directly at the source.

I might consider the websites biased? LOL! If someone did not consider them biased they would be ignorant. They announce their bias! Does it seem reasonable to suggest someone will learn the truth about the Democratic platform on repealing the Bush era tax breaks by listening to Rush Limbaugh? He even provides sound bites where you can hear the Democrats speak for themselves. Do you really think that because Rush provides quotes, his characterizations are unbiased?


If the websites you identified are where you would send people to learn about JWs, and where you did your research, it is no wonder you are confused and imagine contradictions when presented with the facts.

[Ringwielder]

Originally Posted by BWW1962

I find it an interesting nuance of the rhetoric of JW detractors to suggest that anything published or said by the WBTS is prophetic. This characterization is often predicated on their desire to assert the Biblical condemnation of De 18:20 is thus applicable to the WBTS.

One of the additional characteristics of this ignorant and prejudicial exercise that often appears is not only the inaccurate grandiosity of prophecy being applied to the WBTS literature, but they also attempt to pretentiously establish their own credibility by stating " I was a JW for X number of years, and was even an Elder." This is an absolutely meaningless credential, even if it is true. The requirements to become an Elder are primarily moral integrity. To suggest this gives them some special insight into the organization or in-depth knowledge of the theology is disingenuous; they are low level administrators of the congregation. I offer as evidence the mutterings that the WBTS has false prophecies by those who claim to have intimate knowledge of the theology. If they were knowledgeable, they would know the basic WBTS teaching that there are no prophecies since the 1st century congregation. It is either an indication of their lack of knowledge or an exposure of their prejudice to continue that fallacy

Despite the repeated explanations in the congregations and in the literature that the gift of prophesying was "done away with" (1 Cor 13:8) upon the death of the apostles of the first century congregations, ignorant people continue to falsely assert the WBTS offers prophecy. Their deleterious ilk have no purpose for education but only to defame the WBTS. This is readily apparent in prejudicial and rhetorical style of their "questions" about JW matters.

Do not be misled by bigots, research the issues with honest hearted and reasonable people who do not have an axe to grind.

They said it themselves.....

The Watchtower magazine of April 1st, 1972, page 197:

"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?...These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses...Of course it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?"

I believe a prophet is one who prophesies?

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by BWW1962

I do not doubt you have "researched". The intent and integrity of that research is evidenced by the resources you recommend to support your hypothesis.



It is no wonder you imagine it to be contradictory. Your prejudice has tainted your judgment. You believe the WBTS presents prophecy and its intent is to scare people into following Jesus' teachings (Mat 28:19)? That is an absurd description. If you tell someone that they should stop smoking because they will suffer health problems such as lung cancer, is that a prophetic message to generate fearful submission?



I might consider the websites biased? LOL! If someone did not consider them biased they would be ignorant. They announce their bias! Does it seem reasonable to suggest someone will learn the truth about the Democratic platform on repealing the Bush era tax breaks by listening to Rush Limbaugh? He even provides sound bites where you can hear the Democrats speak for themselves. Do you really think that because Rush provides quotes, his characterizations are unbiased?


If the websites you identified are where you would send people to learn about JWs, and where you did your research, it is no wonder you are confused and imagine contradictions when presented with the facts.

It's not what I did as research. Almost all the interpreters for the deaf here are JW and I have talked to them at length about their theology. I went to the Kingdom Hall for awhile and did a weekly Bible study with them. I read their pamphlets, their weekly Watchtower Magazine. I just have no proof of that to show online, unless you want me to copy paste some of the braille-format files I have. I sat down with a friend in the public library and compared the New World Translation to other translations of the Bible. I borrowed my friend's braille Bible and read several parts of several chapters and had their friend also sign the ASL Bible into my hand. So I would say I've done my fair amount of first-hand, unbiased research.

What strikes me as the most amazing is that after a few months, some of the members (not all, so I am by no means saying all JW's are evil or anything like that) actually tried to convince me to break off my from my family. Here are the exact Bible Verses and quotes they gave me:

John 7:3-10
3 Jesus’ brothers said to him, “Leave Galilee and go to Judea, so that your disciples there may see the works you do. 4 No one who wants to become a public figure acts in secret. Since you are doing these things, show yourself to the world.” 5 For even his own brothers did not believe in him.

6 Therefore Jesus told them, “My time is not yet here; for you any time will do. 7 The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil. 8 You go to the festival. I am not[a] going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.” 9 After he had said this, he stayed in Galilee.

10 However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret

Luke 21:16
16 You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers and sisters, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death.

Luke 18:29
29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God

Luke 8:21
21 He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.”

Mark 10:29,34
29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel
34 who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise.”

Mark 3:32-35
32 A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, “Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you.”

33 “Who are my mother and my brothers?” he asked.

34 Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 35 Whoever does God’s will is my brother and sister and mother.

35"For whoever (A)does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother."

Matt 6:33
33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Luke 14:28,31
28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it?
31 “Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Won’t he first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand?

1 Cor 10:23,31
23 “I have the right to do anything,” you say—but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything, but not everything is constructive.
31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

Prov 3:5,6
5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.[a]

1 Pet 5:6-9
6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. 7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 9 Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings.
9 Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that the family of believers throughout the world is undergoing the same kind of sufferings.

Heb 10:36-38
36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.
37 For,
“In just a little while,
he who is coming will come
and will not delay.”[a]
38 And,
“But my righteous[b] one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”[c]

God's Love Book
Chapter 15

It's true, and they do have a point. My parents kicked me out and cut me off when I went blind because it was too much for them. But my wife and her grandparents took me in and I consider them my family now, and having been what we have already been through, I know they will never abandon me and I could never abandon them either.

I've read Jehovah's Witnesses: Watchtower Society Official Web Site and Worldwide Association of Jehovah. I read sites both by current JW's and ex-JW's to get both sides of the issue. I was just using those links as example to guides where you can find the exact articles. So you can go look at those Watchtower articles yourself. I would look at them myself but they are all in print format (the WT only became available in braille in 1976--right after the 1975 date), and the only people that could interpret them to me are JW themselves so I don't think they'd be willing to interpret something that disproves their religion.

Don't get me wrong. I think there are a lot of great things about the JW's. This is just one part of being JW that I can't and don't think I will ever understand. I love the fact that the JW's preach political neutrality, are willing to help in disasters before anyone else even arrives on the scene. I volunteer with the Red Cross and the JW's were at Haiti even before the Red Cross was. They are very loving and supportive when you are studying the Bible, more than many people I ever knew. I've never had any religious sect be so considerate about my deaf-blindness, even providing me tactile interpreters and a table to rest my elbow at every single one of the meetings. Their ASL skill was amazing too, and it's the only sect I know of that has congregations and assembles purely in ASL, rather than siphoning the deaf off to one side at English hearing assemblies and congregations. So by no means think I only think negatively about JW's. There are some things I love about them. I just acknowledge both the plusses and the minuses.

[Farrowlane]

Originally Posted by bobmulk

I find it offensive that I'm an apostate because I don't believe in your version of Scripture.

You should feel offended my your own actions only!

[Farrowlane]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

Well that's sounds really good, but you see the Bible states something totally different.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, they redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens (ALONE); that spreadeth abroad the earth by (MYSELF);

Now if you believe that Jesus and the Father = one God, then we have no problem with this verse. Yet if you believe that Jesus and the Father do not = one God, then there is a problem.

Because the God of the Old Testament is saying He made everything, He made the heavens, and the earth, and He did this (ALONE) and by (HIMSELF). No mention of Jesus here.

So is the Old Testament God lying? Did He really make everything alone and by Himself? Or did He have Jesus Christ help Him? Or is Jesus Christ lying? Because the Bible says that Jesus Christ made all things? Anyway you look at this, you can't have it both ways. Either they are both one God, or one of them is not telling the truth. What do you believe?

Who is responsible for the translation of the bible?

Who was Charles Taze Russell?

What was supposed to happen in 1914?

What was supposed to happen in 1975?

Why Are over 90% of all Kingdom Halls segregated racially?

[nimchimpsky]

Originally Posted by Farrowlane

Who is responsible for the translation of the bible?

Who was Charles Taze Russell?

What was supposed to happen in 1914?

What was supposed to happen in 1975?

Why Are over 90% of all Kingdom Halls segregated racially?

I just don't think that last one is true. The KH I went to was very racially diverse and integrated. There were black folks, Spanish folks, Asian folks, white folks, lots of mixed folks, other racial minorities, and we were by no means segregated. I couldn't even tell who was what race by the way we interacted in the KH. The only time it became more apparent is when people outside the KH made assumptions about us (like strangers thinking some of the black members were my caretakers or police thinking they were harassing me).

[Farrowlane]

Originally Posted by REFORMED

Yes, I was a JW and I still want to encourage the JW's to seek out answers to these questions. It's as if no one that I've ever asked these questions to have ever answered the questions or even attempted to. (??)

Who decided what books were to be included in the bible?

I mean who were the actual individuals not what the group was called.

What were their backgrounds?

How many times was the bible translated?

Who was Charles Taze Russell?

What was his group orginally called?

Were other people members of his group who split off and formed their own group(s)?

Why are the JW's the only people who actually have the real, genuine, and singular truth?