The Bible story of Job.... (Satan, God, Christians, Lord)
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Forgive me Jenn, but this statement is mindboggling. Satan had to "ask God's permission???" Why did God give permission? What if he said "no?" Did he want to say "no" or was he trying to feed his ego to prove a point to Satan? I find it disturbing.
So what about the atheist who is never afflicted, but the Christian who is?
Why would Satan afflict the atheist who is already going to hell. He has limited resourses and time and wants to wear down us Christians. I guess a similar metaphor would be like shooting a dead horse. Why do it, its already dead so, don't waste the bullet.
God does not need his ego stroked. He is satisfied with who he is. Jobs suffering is only disturbing because you don't want the same things to happen to you. Sometimes with God he sees a bigger picture than us. Like the parrent who gives their child a vaccination. We know that the needle will hurt for a moment but the long term benifits far out weigh the immediate pain. The same is for this life on this earth, there is alot of pain and suffering, but in light of eternity it is all worth it. The pain of this world will be forgotten when we are in the arms of the creator and he has comforted us and wiped away all of our tears.
Why would Satan afflict the atheist who is already going to hell. He has limited resourses and time and wants to wear down us Christians. I guess a similar metaphor would be like shooting a dead horse. Why do it, its already dead so, don't waste the bullet.
God does not need his ego stroked. He is satisfied with who he is. Jobs suffering is only disturbing because you don't want the same things to happen to you. Sometimes with God he sees a bigger picture than us. Like the parrent who gives their child a vaccination. We know that the needle will hurt for a moment but the long term benifits far out weigh the immediate pain. The same is for this life on this earth, there is alot of pain and suffering, but in light of eternity it is all worth it. The pain of this world will be forgotten when we are in the arms of the creator and he has comforted us and wiped away all of our tears.
Ok, you nor I might not know the 'big picture' for our lives as our story is still unfolding. In the case of Job's we have his. Please then, explain to me what was his big picture? What difference was there in his status with God that was different than before the ordeal? Did he become more righteous? Did he become more faithful? Did he prove to God what God did not already know BEFORE the ordeal?
Ok, you nor I might not know the 'big picture' for our lives as our story is still unfolding. In the case of Job's we have his. Please then, explain to me what was his big picture? What difference was there in his status with God that was different than before the ordeal? Did he become more righteous? Did he become more faithful? Did he prove to God what God did not already know BEFORE the ordeal?
It says in Job 42: 1: Then Job answered the LORD, and said, 2: I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee. 3: Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. 4: Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. 5: I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. 6: Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
First Job is amazed because he learned from God things that he never knew. We call this a revelation from God.
Seccond job saw God. This is what we will say is a revelation of God.
Job also got to speak with God. This is what we call communing with God. You could say that he formed an intimate relationship with his creator.
God then told him to pray for his friends. So God gave Job a ministry and a position over his friends. You might consider this as a type of occupation.
Finally God resored Job. Not only giving him back seven fold what was lost, but his family came to him and gave him a coin and an earing. Here, more than the treasures, God restored Jobs relationships with his family members.
Last God extended the years of Job so that he could see from the children born after this suffering to the fourth generation.
So would you take a sickness for a short duration of time to be given: Time to talk to God, a ministry from God, a position from God, A family from God, Seven times all your worldly posessions and then some from God, and a long life so that you will be able to see you childrens, childrens, childrens, children? I have seen people on reality shows do it for less. But Job did it all and endured it all because he loved God.
Why would Satan afflict the atheist who is already going to hell. He has limited resourses and time and wants to wear down us Christians. I guess a similar metaphor would be like shooting a dead horse. Why do it, its already dead so, don't waste the bullet.
Pardon? This is in direct contradiction to everything that good Christians say. "God loves you always, God will never give up on you, God is tugging at your heart to get your attention, God is waiting to forgive you, God loves all his children and wants them to come unto him, etc etc etc".
So which is it? Are atheists dead to God already, or does he love us eternally? Because if we're dead to him, I sure wish those Christians would stop trying to convert us over at the Atheist forum.
Pardon? This is in direct contradiction to everything that good Christians say. "God loves you always, God will never give up on you, God is tugging at your heart to get your attention, God is waiting to forgive you, God loves all his children and wants them to come unto him, etc etc etc".
So which is it? Are atheists dead to God already, or does he love us eternally? Because if we're dead to him, I sure wish those Christians would stop trying to convert us over at the Atheist forum.
God does love us, but according to Romans 1:24-26 "God abandoned them to their shameful desires" When people chose to reject God, He allows them to.
Verse 28 "When they refused to acknowledge God, He abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done".
Pardon? This is in direct contradiction to everything that good Christians say. "God loves you always, God will never give up on you, God is tugging at your heart to get your attention, God is waiting to forgive you, God loves all his children and wants them to come unto him, etc etc etc".
So which is it? Are atheists dead to God already, or does he love us eternally? Because if we're dead to him, I sure wish those Christians would stop trying to convert us over at the Atheist forum.
I am a little confused. I was talking about Satan. Why should Satan waste his time trying to convert sinners to sin? I said it was a waste for someone to kill a dead horse.... The dead horse in this is the sinner, the shooter would be Satan who is the accuser of the bretheren, and the bullets are his lies that he uses to lead us away from God. I never said that God gives up on us.
The scripture is clear that God's patience for one believer is as a thousand years in one day to wait for the ungodly to turn to righteousness. If you read the prodigal son parrable that Jesus taught. When the son came to his senses and returned to the Father, the Father ran to the son and kissed him and clothed him and feed him and rejoiced that his son who was lost was now found. This is how the Father God rejoices when we return to him.
It is very confusing sometimes God, good... Satan bad. I can see how they can get mixed up!?!.........
I am a little confused. I was talking about Satan. Why should Satan waste his time trying to convert sinners to sin? I said it was a waste for someone to kill a dead horse.... The dead horse in this is the sinner, the shooter would be Satan who is the accuser of the bretheren, and the bullets are his lies that he uses to lead us away from God. I never said that God gives up on us.
The scripture is clear that God's patience for one believer is as a thousand years in one day to wait for the ungodly to turn to righteousness. If you read the prodigal son parrable that Jesus taught. When the son came to his senses and returned to the Father, the Father ran to the son and kissed him and clothed him and feed him and rejoiced that his son who was lost was now found. This is how the Father God rejoices when we return to him.
It is very confusing sometimes God, good... Satan bad. I can see how they can get mixed up!?!.........
I must have skipped over the Satan bit. This is what happens when I don't get my early morning coffee... I get cranky and squinty and my reading comprehension goes down the toilet. Many apologies for misinterpreting!
That being said... I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA replied:
Quote:
God does love us, but according to Romans 1:24-26 "God abandoned them to their shameful desires" When people chose to reject God, He allows them to.
Verse 28 "When they refused to acknowledge God, He abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done".
Apparently Job was too confident in his own righteousness. He argued with God about it. God showed him he was not as great as he thought he was. That is one of the lessons...for us all not to think too highly of ourselves and our accomplishments.
I have suffered with chronic pain for many years, but I believe there will be much better things for me eventually, because I trust in the Heavenly Father.
I think I see a trend here, the christian focuses on the side of the story regarding Job and his faith while the non-christian focuses on gods action such as his mingling with satan. In any case I remember being read this story once when I was in bed sick with fever and to this day I believe that from all the characters mentioned, there was only one good guy: Job
this is definitely a rude awakening to me. to know that job's story made former christians turn back from God. coz they REALIZE something. it only proves that each person has their own interpretations of things. job's story actually is my fave coz MY interpretation is: ALL things in this world are only borrowed from GOD, we do not own anything in this world. as we all know, when we die.. no matter how powerful, rich you are.. you can not take your power and material posessions to the grave.
so some people who turned away from God coz of this story is because what? you feel entitled to have ALL the best all the good things while you are living in FAITH under God's protection? that you are angry that God made you suffer? but Christ our Savior Himself has suffered. you all know the passion of the Christ story of course.. and HE LET IT HAPPEN TO HIM. so im just boggled to no end why you seem angry at what God let misfortunes after misfortunes happen to his most faithful, favorite servant... in which by the end... HE gave them back to job anyway... if not doubled.
are you sour coz he lost his family? everybody dies. are you sour he lost everything he worked so hard for? that is life my friends... the only constant is change.
im just sad to know that for me the MOST inspiring story of the bible is the end of faith for the former christians.
Last edited by LBSer; 06-26-2008 at 05:49 PM..
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