Asked, Not Answered (Buddhists, atheist, Muslims, worship)
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Funny thing though. I don't usually pray for what I want, but for what I need.
Are you a Stones fan by any chance?
"… You can't always get what you want. I tell you, baby
You can't always get what you want, no
But if you try sometimes you just might find, uh, mm
You get what you need..."
We were discussing in another thread about why prayers never get answered...another tidbit that always stuck in my craw. It always seemed to me that it was a colossal waste of time but I did it anyway. And I did a lot of it.
Define "answered", please. Do you think God is some genie in a bottle that will do the whim of anyone who "asks"? Or is it possible that maybe it is an answer when he doesn't give us what we immaturely demand?
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Someone I know who is religious is struggling with unanswered prayers.....I mean, it makes sense to question everything and there are verses in the bible that promise, promise that all you have to do is ask, and you'll get it. How much do you think that falls short? That is just one inconsistency and contradiction in the bible and there are many other religious texts that are as equally confusing.
Again, it depends on what is being asked for. The apostle Paul wrote that he struggled with a "thorn in the flesh" that he had asked the Lord to remove, but it wasn't. Why? Because God gave him grace instead.
The Bible never contains any sort of promise that we can demand whatever we want.
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When is promising to answer prayers just by asking but never delivering a good idea? Sounds like a very cruel con job that's been going on way too long. Doesn't that sound a little fairy tale-ish? If there were a god then why would he/she/it/they let prayers go unanswered, forever?
I think time is better spent helping those who need it and not just wasting time and energy on a no show. Saying "sending prayers" or "we'll pray for you" does not help anything or anyone.
It is certainly possible to do both.
The apostle James agrees with you.
"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." (James 2:14-16)
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Can anyone answer, truthfully and without quoting scripture or from some other text, that you have thought about unanswered prayers without using your religious model? It is possible. I highly recommend it.
Think outside the box of religion, what you have been taught or told. How do I really feel? Do I need to pray without ceasing or do I accept that it's never going to happen? Meditation and introspection sound more productive to me.
Define "answered", please. Do you think God is some genie in a bottle that will do the whim of anyone who "asks"? Or is it possible that maybe it is an answer when he doesn't give us what we immaturely demand?
Again, it depends on what is being asked for. The apostle Paul wrote that he struggled with a "thorn in the flesh" that he had asked the Lord to remove, but it wasn't. Why? Because God gave him grace instead.
The Bible never contains any sort of promise that we can demand whatever we want.
It is certainly possible to do both.
The apostle James agrees with you.
"What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead." (James 2:14-16)
Why?
We know yo christians have all the excuses down pat.
And you've demonstrated that no matter what is said, you'll keep on hating. I'm sorry for you.
It has nothing to do with hate. It has to do with not-believing. And not being willing to let christians push their beliefs on us.
I no longer believe in christianity; I suppose you don't believe in Buddhism. I don't go around like a cry baby about it. But I'm not going to be pushed around by christian culture and christian privilege. I'm not going to simply tolerate christians and people like you who believe that those of us who have not accepted Jesus Christ as our personal savior are going to hell. If you all would simply back off and celebrate your own personal faith...personally...most us atheists wouldn't even be on the forum.
To me, the condition, "follow my commandments" was actually part of the promise, as I most certainly did so. I knew that verse is often quoted out of context by "prosperity gospel" types but I didn't use it in that way. In fact oddly I don't recall ever asking for financial largesse from god, although I ended up doing relatively well in that regard anyway, as it turned out.
Oh geez..."prosperity gospel." Yeah I'm...not a fan.
Curious though. While you may not have asked for financial success at the time you were Christian, did you attribute your success to God anyway? This is actually kind of a lead into how I'll respond to the next few paragraphs.
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Now we are in the problem part of these discussions because whatever I or someone else didn't get from prayer, whatever tragedy or catastrophe befell them cannot be god's fault and therefore is either that of the requestor or just the inevitable knock-on effects of living in a fallen world which overrides or limits god's desire to help. There's nowhere else to go with it.
I think it depends on how we see God in the first place. If we see Him as one who's "supposed" to show us He 'loves' us by granting us EVERYTHING we want (so we can be 'happy', because after all...God 'should' want to see all of us 'happy', since He has the means to do so), then we really ARE treating him like a genie in a bottle.
And maybe, it's our concept of 'love' that needs to change, before we can believe.
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So accepting that for the sake of argument, again I ask: how would one ever know that god did or did not answer any particular prayer, since it's so chock-a-block full of if's and's & but's? Conditions up the wing-wang and so if hypothetically things HAD gone my way, how would I even celebrate it as answered prayer? It might have been that god answered "meh" and circumstances just went my way. I mean people do go into remission from disease, they do sometimes hit on the right combination of skilled doctors and just the right medication. Sometimes there's a really expeditious recovery from horrible injuries. And people like me sometimes have fantastic things happen without asking god or anyone else for it.
When I pray, I don't look for the answer to my prayers the way I think--or expect--it to happen. That is, I don't expect God HIMSELF to come swooping down immediately after praying and personally hand me the thing I want. That kind of thinking reminds me of that old joke. The one about the guy who prayed to God to save him from drowning...and some people in a rowboat came by and told him to "get in!"...and the guy said, "No thanks! I'm waiting for God to save me!" I've heard some skeptics say before that their prayers were "never answered." I find that hard to believe, especially if they believe the same way that guy in the joke believed!
Case in point: What if I was 20 years old, and prayed for a million dollars? I could easily become disappointed that God didn't drop a million dollars into my bank account overnight. Meanwhile, I apply for a 'dream job'...and get it...paying $50,000. Over 20 years, that's a million. Was my prayer answered? To me, the answer is 'YES'! To me, one reason why God didn't immediately become my financial 'backer' was because God knew that if I had a million all at once, I'd squander most of it in 5 years. Meanwhile, if that million was spread out over 20 years, I'd make better use of it.
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My father was a one pack a day Camel man through most of his adult life. Around the age of 50 he stopped cold turkey after asking god for help with it, and he did so, no problem. He liked to preen about that a little bit in fact. But the truth is he had fallen asleep on the couch while smoking and set it on fire. My mother would not abide the destruction of "her" couch. Ultimatums were issued. So was it the fear of god or the fear of my mother?
LOL! I think in that case, you'd probably have to ask your father! Then again, who knows? Did God 'nudge' your mother to issue her ultimatums, knowing that your father would heed them and quit? After all, God does work through others quite often.
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Also years later I read about the dynamics of nicotine addiction and my father's ability to quit fit perfectly with the fact that the "tipping point" of nicotine addiction can in many people be quite high, and a pack a day habit doesn't equal physical addiction for everyone. I suspect my Dad was able to quit because he wasn't an addict, but merely habituated. I could be wrong of course; god might have tipped the scales in his favor as he thought. Who could say? And that is my entire point. Whatever requests god grants or even unasked-for blessings he bestows are seldom un-explainable apart from god. There are people who are determined to credit god, but to an outside observer with no skin in the game, I just don't see what people seem to so often want or need to see.
These things that happen may be explainable, but only to a point. I wrote in another forum that I gave some money to a homeless guy. They guy was bowled over. He said that he just finished praying for the exact amount I gave him. Coincidence? To you, maybe. But what are the odds that I would leave my house, drop my keys on the way to my car, drive my car and get stuck in traffic, only to encounter that man at the exact moment he asked God for some help? Too many 'coincidences' for me.
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Life is far more easily explained, in my view, as a series of impersonal things happening, some of which you like, some of which you don't, some of which you have partial influence over, some of which you don't. Some of which are at the end of causal chains you aren't even aware of or didn't anticipate, some of which it's easy to see cause and effect.
I get how you think that way. Maybe I (and other Christians) just go a step further?
Disagreement <> hate. I don't know why this is such a hard concept for so many of you guys.
And no one is asking for your pity.
I was thinking about this, this morning. When I first traveling to Thailand, I would often be hit up for conversation by lay Buddhists when I was visiting Buddhist temples there. There was never a single conversation where anything like "if you don't believe in Buddhism you're in for a world of pain and suffering". Never heard that...ever. But I've heard it so often in christianity. And you know what it comes down to -- the childish if you don't believe what I believe, you're going to hell. Christians tend to be very egotistical about their beliefs. But as Gandhi supposedly said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
I was thinking about this, this morning. When I first traveling to Thailand, I would often be hit up for conversation by lay Buddhists when I was visiting Buddhist temples there. There was never a single conversation where anything like "if you don't believe in Buddhism you're in for a world of pain and suffering". Never heard that...ever. But I've heard it so often in christianity. And you know what it comes down to -- the childish if you don't believe what I believe, you're going to hell. Christians tend to be very egotistical about their beliefs. But as Gandhi supposedly said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
How some Christians interpret Jesus and his words is in on them, not on Jesus. How we interpret texts has a lot to do with our own mind, how it is conditioned, how open and aware we are, and all the biases and ignorance we bring with us. Gandhi saw Divinity in everyone, as his religion teaches, and as his own character guided him. There are Hindus who cannot see Divinity if it stood in front of them. All Buddhists are not Buddha (the realized one) either. Obviously. It is still the person and his character, not the religion, that acts.
How some Christians interpret Jesus and his words is in on them, not on Jesus. How we interpret texts has a lot to do with our own mind, how it is conditioned, how open and aware we are, and all the biases and ignorance we bring with us. Gandhi saw Divinity in everyone, as his religion teaches, and as his own character guided him. There are Hindus who cannot see Divinity if it stood in front of them. All Buddhists are not Buddha (the realized one) either. Obviously. It is still the person and his character, not the religion, that acts.
It is still the religion that their acts and character are based on...or isn't it. Because if it's not, then you might as toss the religion away as having to effect.
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Yeah I'm...not a fan.